222 



The penalties themselves are on a graduated basis for a first offense, 

 being between $2,000 and $10,000, and more for the second offense. 



I am not tied in my bill to any particular approach. I am not tied 

 necessarily to the penalties, if they could be increased, but I feel very 

 deeply the problem must be met. 



_ It cannot be done piecemeal, and I am not for just delegating broad 

 discretion to an agency to make up the rules. 



I think this is of such importance to our Nation that the legislation 

 should restrict to a good deal the ability to trade off, or to balance off 

 the various interests, because I think the interests in preserving our 

 ocean are greater than any other interests that might come into 

 conflict. 



I would be glad to answer any questions on this that you may have, 

 but I think my statement is fairly complete in laying out this matter. 



One last point, I do want to emphasize the difference between this 

 approach, and the aj)proach I think that the administration has taken. 

 This bill, or a bill like it is a complete, not a piecemeal, approach 

 to the problem. 



It just does not take one particular part of it, and try and isolate 

 it. It just does not work. It has not worked in the past, and I think we 

 need to do a lot more in this area. 



Mr. DiNGELL. Mr. Frey, you have given the committee an excellent 

 statement, and we are indeed grateful to you. 



The Chair would appreciate receiving, at your convenience, such 

 amendments to the administration's bill you might deem appropriate 

 in addition to the comments you have made this morning. 



Mr. Frey. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. DiNGELL. Our next witness is our good friend and colleague, 

 Hon. Sam Gibbons, Congressman. 



Mv. Gibbons, we are glad to welcome you to present such statement 

 as you wish to give at this time. 



STATEMENT OE HON. SAM GIBBONS, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 

 CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF FLORIDA 



Mr. Gibbons. Thanli you, Mr. Chairman. 



I am a cointroducer of a couple of the bills that are before you this 

 morning, and I want to state I am not wedded to the specific language 

 of any of the bills I have introduced. 



I respect the ability of this committee. 



I would urge you to bring out as early as possible a strong tough 

 law on the matter of dumping, and the matter of the pollution of our 

 coastal waters and estuaries. 



I came here this morning to tell you from the point of view of a per- 

 son who has lived very close to the sea all of his life, that I see what 

 is developing, and I think something needs to be really done. 



Let me describe my background. I am a native of Florida. I have 

 lived near the gulf all of my life. I live on one of the most highly 

 polluted estuary waters in the United States. That is not something to 

 brag about, but it is a fact. 



The port of Tampa is one of the largest, probably the eighth or ninth 

 largest port in the United States. 



