439 



There is a California State law that apparently calls that into ques- 

 tion, but that is not without some ambiquity at this point. 



But that is true. If the State did not have any authority outside 

 of the territorial sea, then that is where they would end up going. 



Mr. Shaeood. You would not look to those State standards, if the 

 party came to you with a permit to go out 6 miles, or 4 miles from 

 sliore, you would not take into accomit those higher State standards. 

 Is that true ? 



Mr. E-ucKELSHAus. Well, I think what our agency has to do a lot 

 more of, and it is difficult for me to promise in the context of this bill 

 that we ought to do it, is a lot closer coordination and cooperation with 

 the States in adopting standards as such. 



There is a certain impetus, when a Federal agency adopts a stand- 

 ard, and makes it clear what that standard is, and makes clear the 

 reasons behind the standard, there is a certain preemptive force in this 

 kind of standard setting itself in that States then say, "Well, they 

 are handling it, and therefore there is no reason for me to do it." 



This has happened in some areas, particularly with HEW. 



Mr. Sharood. It seems pointless to provide in this legislation for a 

 provision such as this, if you are then going to ignore the State stand- 

 ards and are not going to take them into account, but issue permits 

 solely on the basis of the Federal standards. It does not seem to serve 

 any useful purpose. 



Mr. Ruckelshaus. I don't think vre can ignore them, but by the 

 same token, I don't think we should be in the business of enforcing 

 State regulations. This could get to be a very confusing problem, if 

 we tried it, and we have not done it in the past. 



Mr. Sharood. My second question is perhaps a bit far out, but I 

 want to clarify another point for the record. 



Let's say the Army decided to transport surplus munitions of some 

 type from Vietnam to the central Pacific and dump them. That would 

 not come under the coverage of this act. Is that correct ? 



Mr. Ruckelshaus. I think it would. I think they would have to 

 have a permit to do so. 



Mr. Sharood. As I read your permit system, you have to have a 

 permit to transport from the United States out into the ocean, and you 

 have to have a permit to dump within our territorial sea. 



I don't read anything in there that requires a permit for the U.S. 

 citizen or entity to transport material from a foreign country out into 

 the ocean for dumping. 



Mr. Ruckelshaus. I may not be in the act. 



Mr. Sharood. I am not suggesting that the}'- would do this, but I am 

 posing the question. 



]SIr. Ruckelshaus. We are asking for the authority under the 

 Federal Water Pollution Control Act to set standards beyond the 

 contiguous zone. 



]Mr. Sharood. That relates to material coming out from the United 

 States. 



Mr. Ruckelshaus. And also affecting the territorial sea of the 

 United States. 



It also, I think, might nm into a clear problem under the Executive 

 order, or under the National Environmental Policy Act, but arguably, 

 this might be outside of the coverage of any present law. 



