445 



itself, with prior notice and a hearing, if necessary, and all of the pro- 

 visions of the granting of any permit. 



Mr. DiNGELL. It would be possible, if somebody wanted a very fine 

 device to evade the probability of a hearing over a very unpopular 

 subject. 



Mr. KucKELSHAus. I suppose that is right. 



Mr. DiNGELL. Mr. Everett. 



Mr. Everett. Mr. Ruckelshaus, I am still not clear in my mind as to 

 how this would work with respect to the Corps of Engineers. 



The chairman of the full committee is concerned about the plans 

 for the Baltimore harbor project. In a statement issued by Mr. Rey- 

 nolds yesterday, on behalf of the American Institute of Merchant Ship- 

 ping, he indicated that the project had already been approved, and that 

 the State of Maryland, the board of public works and State of Mary- 

 land have given assurance that disposal areas will be provided in the 

 Chesapeake Bay opposite Kent Island and/or in diked areas off Balti- 

 more Harbor. 



If this bill is passed in its present form, what will take place with 

 respect to a permit application that would have to be obtained under 

 this legislation, so far as the dredge and fill permit is concerned ? 



Mr. RucKELSHAus. Well, as it would ordinarily work, if we are talk- 

 ing about a dredge and fill permit from the Corps of Engineers, where 

 under their authority under the Rivers and Harbors Act, there would 

 onl}^ be one permit issued, and if the permit is requested of them, any 

 dumping provisions relating to the issuance of that permit would come 

 under the purview of our responsibilities, under this act, and they 

 would have, under the act, as I read it, there is no requirement for a 

 separate permit. 



Mr. Everett. The State of Maryland said they would like to 

 have 



Mr. RucKELSHAus. Excuse me. There has to be certification under 

 section 7(b) (2) to the Corps of Engineers by our agency that there is 

 no violation of the criteria. 



Mr. DiNGELL. Mr. Everett, if you yield, what you as saying here, 

 if you please, Mr. Ruckelshaus, is that under this particular proposal, 

 you would still have the corps continue to issue dredge-fill permits 

 as they do under existing law, but that the dredge-fill permits would 

 require an additional activity by your agency under lines 18, 19, 20, 21, 

 and 22 of the bill appearing on page 11, which, for the purpose of the 

 record, says : 



And regulations issued hereunder, unless the Administrator has certified that 

 the activity proposed to be conducted is in conformity with provisions of this 

 Act and with regulations issued hereunder. 



Am I correct in that ? 



Mr. Ruckelshaus. That is right. 



Mr. DiNGELL, So essentially, the corps would have to defer to you on 

 environmental matters, even though they would actually issue the 

 permit in that particular instance. Am I correct ? 



Mr. Ruckelshaus. I think the theory of this is one agency ought to 

 have responsibility for assuring that there is uniform treatment for 

 dumping whatever the material is in the ocean, and if you divide this 



