528 



Mr. DiisTGELL. As I read the requirements of section 7 they require 

 that the permit be issued by the corps and that you carry out the 

 requirements of EPA. 



As I read section 7(c) (2) you would still continue to issue permits 

 but you would have the added requirement that it would have to be 

 certified that the activity to be conducted is in conformity with the 

 provisions of the act and the regulations issued thereunder. 



Captain Heyward and Mr. Everett were both inquiring as to this 

 particular point. 



General Groves. Sir, I believe this is one of the points that probably 

 requires some clarification. It would depend in part as to whether we 

 were doing the dredging or one of our contractors. 



Mr. DiNGELL. If you were doing the dredging and your contractors 

 were doing the dredging you would have the same situation. 



EPA would have to certify that your permit was issued in conform- 

 ity wdth the requirements of the law and in conformity with the 

 regulations ? 



General Groves. My question really dealt more with specifics. 



Mr. DiNGELL. I assume that in the Great Lakes you anticipate you 

 will probably continue to be obligated to utilize dike disposal areas for 

 pollutant spoil. 



Am I correct on this ? 



General Groves. Yes, sir. 



The Rivers and Harbors Act of 1970 provided a means by which 

 that can be accomplished. 



We are certainly headed in that direction. I should point out though 

 that the proviso that the local interests be excused from their 25 percent 

 contribution if EPA certifies that they have an on-going acceptable 

 program is making it rather difficult for us to come to grips with them 

 so far. 



Mr. DiNGELL. Would you amplify that, please ? 



General Groves. Yes, sir. 



Tlie initial reaction of any of these local interests that we go to is 

 that they will go to EPA first and see if they can't be excused from 

 their contribution. 



Mr. DiNGELL. What is the effect of that on your program ? 



Does it jump your cost ? 



General Groves. It means that we are not making much progress 

 toward getting these dike enclosures underway. 



Mr. DiNGELL. Are you telling us that EPA is excusing them from 

 the requirement of using dike enclosures or simply paying the cost 

 and shifting the cost to you ? 



General Groves. Sir, a pattern has not really emerged yet. 



Mr. DiNGELL. Obviously, when they go to EPA to be excused from 

 the 25 percent they either try to get out of the construction of the dike 

 area in its entirety or they are expecting to shift the burden to some- 

 one else. 



General Groves. I think it is the latter. 



Mr. DiNGELL. Which is it, shift the burden to you ? 



General Groves. We get that impression. 



Mr. DiNGELL. You then have to rush out and get more 

 appropriations ? 



General Groves. Yes, sir. 



