X8 MARINE SCIENCE 



Mr. Spilhaus. I would put it even stronger than that, sir. In my 

 -opinion I think we can ill afford to neglect oceanography as we have 

 done in the past from the point of view of national defense. We have 

 fallen into the curious situation where people who travel the oceans 

 are perhaps more concerned with outer space than they are with the 

 medium that they are moving in. 



Senator Thurmond. I am deeply concerned with the debt of the 

 Federal Government, deficit financing, and spending and spending and 

 spending, but I think the first obligation of this Government is to 

 provide for the national defense and the survival of our people. 



I have been impressed with the importance of this work in connec- 

 tion with that and I just wanted to get your opinion on how closely 

 you felt this was tied in with the national defense. 



Mr. Spilhaus. I think it is tied in extremely closely. Senator. 



Senator Thurmond. Thank you. 



The Chairman. And would you not say, Doctor, that looking solely 

 :at the military aspect of the thing, that the emphasis on defense, or 

 the emphasis on whatever are the military operations of the Soviet 

 have completely shifted to the space and the under-the-water fields? 

 Most of their efforts are shifting to those two phases ? 



Mr. Spilhaus. There is certainly great emphasis in both those fields. 



The Chairman. Well, they have 500 submarines. Only this year 

 they reduced their basic ground forces in order to use those people for 

 this sort of thing. 



So they have at least concluded that in anything in the future that 

 may happen, this would be of vital importance. 



Senator Thurmond. I was impressed with a figure given here by 

 the chairman in his statementwhich incidentally I thought was a very 

 fine statement, Mr. Chairman. 



The Chairman. Thank you. 



Senator Thurmond. It is about the damage to vessels because of 

 biological disturbances. 



I am just wondering; besides the national defense and from the 

 standpoint of food — it could be a main source of food in this country 

 and I was reading yesterday that possibly by 1980 we may not be able 

 to supply water in this country, that we are going to have to use the 

 ■ocean water to furnish water to our people in cities and other parts of 

 the country. That we have to go forward with that saline research 

 project. 



From the standpoint of defense, food and water and the prevention 

 of the destruction of vessels which ply the seas come about. Now, 

 what other results would result from research in oceanography ? 



Mr. Spilhaus. As a taxpayer I like to remember that while we must 

 study the oceans for our national defense there are peaceful byprod- 

 ucts of this research. For example, during World War II research 

 on marine fouling organisms paid for itself many, many times. I am 

 sure that Dr. Ray or Dr. Iselin will tell you more of this work. 



That is just one example of how a program that you must do for 

 the necessity of national defense pays off in other ways. I am con- 

 vinced that this is true of any oceanographic program of the nature 

 we have suggested here. The byproducts for the taxpayer in his 

 normal life will of themselves justify the program. 



Senator Thurmond. Are there any other benefits to be derived? 

 I was just trying to visualize other benefits or incidental benefits. 



