MARINE SCIENCE 49 



The Chairman. With regard to what the Russians are doing in this 

 whole field, I have the distinct impression — I don't know whether 

 the results are as good as some of the things we have been trying to 

 do, but at least their activity in the field of oceanography is much 

 greater than ours. Would that be a correct statement? 



Mr, IsELiN. Yes, they cranked up their oceanography about 10 

 years ago. They are not very good at it yet, but if money and people 

 count, why they have got it. 



Senator Lausciie. Repeat that. 



Mr. IsELiN. I say if money and numbers of people count in scientific 

 achievement, they should be doing well soon. 



The Chairman. In other words, they are putting much more of their 

 efforts to this task and spending a great deal more upon this. 



Senator Lausche. What is the source of your observation on the 

 quantity of money and people that they are applying to the task ? 



Mr. IsELiN. We know the number and size of their laboratories and 

 about how many people are in them. 



Senator Lausche. How was that obtained ? 



Mr. IsELiN. Through the International Geophysical Year there has 

 been a very free exchange of information. We have visited their 

 laboratories, they have visited our laboratories. We read their publi- 

 cations; they read all of ours too. We have a good idea of what is 

 going on in the nonmilitary aspects of the earth sciences in Russia. 



We have very little knowledge about what they are doing in the 

 military applications. 



The Chairman. But if a nation has approximately 500 submarines 

 of all types, surely there must be a similar activity, of necessity, in 

 the military applications. 



Mr. IsELiN. I spent a whole summer with the help of around 60 

 very smart guys tiying to answer this question and we have yet no 

 evidence that they are particularly sophisticated in the use of these 

 submarines. 



Senator Lausche. That is, their submarines are short-range and 

 not in the long-range category that they have ? 



Mr. IsELiN. No, they have long-range submarines, but I have no 

 evidence that they are able to use them as smartly as we are able to use 

 our submarines. 



Senator Lausche. Now, to what do you ascribe our sophistication in 

 the face of the fact that they have given it more money and more 

 people ? 



Mr. IsELiN. We got started 20 years ahead of them. No Russian 

 oceanographer went to sea until after World War 11. 



Mr. WoRZEL. They had no program in marine geophysics until 

 about 10 years ago and we have had a program in marine geophysics 

 since about 1935 in this country. 



Senator Lausche. Do you know whether they have developed any 

 commercially feasible extraction of minerals out of the seas ? 



Mr. IsELiN. I don't think they have. 



Senator Lausche. Have we done it ? 



Mr. IsELiN. Well, we are getting bromine and we are extracting a 

 few chemicals out of the sea. 



Senator Lausche. What about magnesite, where they are taking 

 the magnesium out of water and mixing it with dolomite and making 

 magnesite brick. 



