right in close to our coast and depleted stocks of hake and other mate- 

 rials for food. We had no agreement on that. 



Finally we got a bilateral agreement with Kussia and then with 

 Japan. Until we can map out somethmg in the way of a pattern from 

 which we can proceed to develop the resources, I think we may have 

 some serious setbacks. We certainly are having them in Latin America 

 now in disputes with those countries over extraordinary assertion of 

 jurisdiction over the high seas. 



The international aspect is important. Wouldn't you agree with 

 that? 



Dr. Wenk. I would absolutely. It seems to me that the legislation 

 was rather f arseeing in two regards. First, the President, with advice 

 and guidance from our council, was obliged by the legislation to under- 

 take legal studies having to do with the conservation, development, 

 management, use of marine resources, both living resources and min- 

 eral resources. 



Second, as I recall, the legislation had a sj)ecific section which 

 called attention to the importance of international cooperation to 

 the extent that it is in our interest, and section 6 provides authority for 

 the council to assist the President in this regard. 



We are taking those provisions quite seriously. We have already 

 initiated contract studies on these legal problems. Five contracts now 

 underway. They are modest in size, but we are endeavoring to examine 

 the present state of international law, to consider what alternative 

 legal regimes could be developed and the consequences of these changes. 



Your point seems especially important with regard to the living re- 

 sources, because we look forward to increases in fish catch as a matter 

 of great need. Most of the marine biologists tell us that the produc- 

 tivity of the ocean is at least five times the present world catch of fish. 

 This doesn't mean every species could be increased by a factor of five. 

 It means, therefore, understanding the total productivity of the sea 

 better, the interrelationship between the different species of fish, and 

 the ecology. All nations of the world could thus be guided individually 

 and collectively to conserve these resources. Conservation doesn't mean 

 not catching fish. It means understanding what the productivity is 

 and then catching fish under some kind of international agreement as 

 to what could be done without reducing the long-term economic pro- 

 ductivity of the sea. 



Mr. Pelly. There was a very interesting CBS television program 

 on oceanography a Sunday or so ago, put on by Walter Cronkite. How- 

 ever, you came away with the idea that all you have to do is go down 

 and pick up diamonds off the bottom of the sea. 



I don't think we should even think of taking minerals or diamonds 

 until we have some sound legal basis establishing development rights. 

 It worries me a little. I was encouraged, however, that we were able 

 to work out an understanding with the Soviet Union. Russia, like our- 

 selves, has come to realize that we have to harvest our resources on the 

 basis of available quantity, which means practicing conservation. 



I think the world is in a frame of mind, through the United Nations, 

 to proceed further along similar lines. I think Ambassador Dean at 

 the Geneva Convention did a remarkable job in convincing other na- 

 tions that we should arrive at some international understanding but he 

 wasn't able to go far enough. 



