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tions concerning national security might be turned over to some purely- 

 civilian agency that could be set up. That same fear occurred in con- 

 nection with the Defense Department when NASA was established. 



Am I right that you are fearful and you are going to great pains to- 

 day in order to stress the importance of this ? 



Admiral Waters. I would not say fearful, sir, but this is always 

 a possibility. I think anyone with a clearly defined mission has found 

 from experience that he must control all of the tools to perform that 

 mission. This is the point we were making, 



I think it equally apparent that, for instance, the Bureau of Com- 

 mercial FisherieSj which is so heavily involved particularly in marine 

 biology and the investigation of the oceans to improve fish catches, 

 must be permitted to do their work. In other words, mission-oriented 

 activities must retain control of the type of investigation which needs 

 to be done, although we strongly advocate cooperation among these 

 agencies. 



Mr. Pellt. It appears clear that the Navy might be the NASA of the 

 sea through its exploration. I think there will be considerable opposi- 

 tion to that concept because so many of the programs are not connected 

 with defense. I think you have certainly stressed in your testimony — 

 and I think you purposely indicated it — ^there is a duplication and 

 overlapping in many of these areas. Is that true ? 



Admiral Waters. I would say, rather than overlapping, sir, that 

 the great bulk of the things we have to do for national defense also 

 have uses elsewhere. 



As an example, I gave the man-in-the-sea program. If you are going 

 to put things down in the ocean, you want to get man as far down 

 there as possible because, obviously, he can make things work better. 

 You have the human mind down there. At the same time, the point 

 I was making is that these developments which come out of the man- 

 in-the-sea prog;ram are equally applicable to any other operations on 

 the bottom which might be done by the petroleum industry, the mining 

 industry, fishing, or whatever. They are available, and we do our very 

 best to make them available. 



Mr. Pellt. Is it not true that the real emphasis on oceanography 

 ■came with President Kennedy but he, on the other hand, was very 

 dubious about setting up a single agency such as we did for the ex- 

 ploration of space ? 



Admiral Waters. So I am, sir. I think you could draw that infer- 

 ence from the brief description I gave you of the Navy organization 

 that has evolved over the last 2 years. We studied this thing very hard. 

 I think the Navy is just really a smaller example, if you will, of the 

 national problem. We have efforts in the marine sciences spread 

 throughout the Navy. They have to be, for oceanography is not an 

 end in itself. It is a supporting function. 



For example, the people who are making homing torpedoes have 

 to know about the ocean, but they have to know different things than 

 the man who is designing, say, a long-range sonar. So, we do have in 

 our laboratories different groups of people oriented in slightly dif- 

 ferent ways toward the sea. 



We looked at the idea of trying to combine all of these people in 

 one place for reasons of efficiency and saving money, and came to the 

 conclusion that it would do much more harm than good and probably 

 cost more in the long run. So we went the other way, leaving all of 



