tion, and the more we know about the deep scatterers and the migra- 

 tion of fish, the more accurately we will be able to predict where they 

 might or might not be and where they will cause us trouble. So, the 

 thing works two ways. 



That is just one example of what is now getting to be a formal agree- 

 ment, and which has been an informal arrangement. We have several 

 others like that. 



Mr. Downing. Admiral, although you go a great deal into ocean- 

 ography, I would think your primary function is concerned with de- 

 fense. In what areas do you not penetrate so far as oceanography is 

 concerned? For instance, do you do any investigation into the area 

 of minerals on the bottom of the ocean ? 



Admiral Waters. We do obtain information which is valuable to 

 people interested in minerals because we are interested in the geology 

 of the bottom, the structure of the bottom, because our newer and more 

 powerful sonar systems use the bottom. Sound waves reflect off the 

 bottom, so bottom conditions affect the performance of the sonar. We 

 are conducting what we call a worldwide survey — it is the one 1 men- 

 tioned covering 15 percent of the world's oceans — ^to determine the 

 rouglmess of the bottom, the reflectivity, the sedimentation, all of 

 which affect sound propagation. 



These same data, this same information, are of great interest to 

 people looking for minerals and oil. It is a help to them. 



Mr. Downing. But you are not concerned with the extraction of the 

 minerals or their economic value. 



Admiral Waters. ISTo, sir. We do not want to be in the fish business, 

 or the oil business, or the mining business ; but we do think the in- 

 formation we have to get to carry out our defense mission is valuable 

 to many other people and most of it is valuable to others. Surprisingly 

 enough, a very small percentage of it has to be classified, particularly 

 in the raw data form in which they want to use it. We make every 

 effort we can to keep it from being classified. 



There are some things, of course, that we have to classify. It is 

 pretty hard to give you a percentage, but we think it is around 90 

 percent unclassified. 



Mr. Downing. Is your progress in the propagation of sound classi- 

 fied? _ 



Admiral Waters. Some of it is ; yes, sir ; but most of the collected 

 environmental data we can at least sanitize so it can be used. 



Mr. Downing. You are making progress in that ? 



Admiral Waters. In the propagation of sound ; yes, sir ; in the stridy 

 of the propagation of sound, particularly long-range sound. This is 

 something which we have had to do. It is an expensive thing to do. It 

 goes back to history. The history of oceanographic investigation wiU 

 tell you that people went and studied the ocean where it was comfort- 

 able to do so. Therefore, we know a great deal more about the waters 

 around Bermuda and the Mediterranean Sea in the summertime than 

 we do about the cold North Atlantic and the rough North Pacific in the 

 winter. That is where we are having to get information now. 



Mr. Downing. Did I understand you correctly to say you had some 

 concern over the establishment of an overall Federal agency for 

 oceanography ? 



Admiral Waters. No, sir; not the establishment per se. We, of 

 course, are concerned about what form it takes. We feel there should 



