349 



One further question. Was this material prepared for this hearing, 

 or is it for general use ? 



Dr. Frosch. This is the most recent updating of material that we 

 prepared, I think, in the first instance for the President's Commission 

 and have used from time to time. 



Mr. Keinecke. In your position as Director of Research for the 

 Navy, do you feel the Navy's share of the overall marine science pro- 

 gram is dominating the scene ? 



Dr. Frosch. The amount of work that we do has been determined by 

 our national security requirements rather than by the overall national 

 marine science needs. There is no question that the Navy has been the 

 largest participant in the national marine sciences program both in 

 expenditure of funds and in number of ships and men that it operates. 

 I do not know in what sense it could be said to be dominating. I am 

 not sure I understand. 



Mr. Eeinecke. I am thinking more from the administrative point 

 of view, it being the lead agency from which all of these other nine 

 agencies you indicated might look to for leadership or for support. 



Dr. Frosch. I think the other agencies very frequently looked to 

 us for support and for help. I do not think that we have been domi- 

 nating in any case in the sense of imposing either the Navy's view 

 of how to do things or, indeed, the Navy's techniques for doing them 

 on anyone else. I think we have been fairly careful and reasonably 

 successful in being a helper when asked. 



Mr. Eeiistecke. In your opinion, do you have full disclosure of non- 

 classified people between your Department and the other nine? 



Dr. Frosch. Oh, yes. We publish a great deal, we make documents 

 available and data available. I think there is no major problem here 

 except that sometimes the volume of material involved is very large. 



Mr. Reinecke. It is very fine testimony. I thank you, Doctor. 



Dr. Frosch. Thank you very much. 



Mr. Lennon. The gentleman from California. 



Mr. Hanna. Doctor, in the President's budget of 1968, $258.7 mil- 

 lion is included, is this the amount you anticipate will be required to 

 make the consolidation and changes in the Defense facilities ? 



Dr. Frosch. No., I believe it is not included in the budget, because it 

 is regarded as primarily a matter involving the military mission of the 

 laboratories concerned, even though they also have important roles 

 in general marine science affairs. What would be included in this 

 budget is the portion of those laboratories' budgets that is attributable 

 to general marine science. 



Mr. Hanna. Would I be correct in presuming from that, that the 

 Defense's budget in marine science is substantially larger than the 

 $258.7 million, in that it would include those projects that have direct 

 military application ? 



Dr. Frosch. The problem is, of course, one of deciding what is a 

 suitable definition of marine sciences. Wlien we were writing a charter 

 for the Oceanographer of the Navy, we took the first draft and dis- 

 cussed it with the Secretary of the Navy. He looked at the first draft 

 and said: "Well, that is very interesting; that is an excellent defini- 

 tion of the Navy ; but maybe we'd better restrict it some more so that 

 it becomes an excellent definition of oceanography." We have that 

 problem all the time. 



