370 



define oceanography broadly as one of our goals, and then try to 

 support the best possible work in that field. 



Mr. KoGERS. Here is what I want to know. Suppose you don't ha.ve 

 anyone operating in an area, let's say in the biological area, that you 

 think should be explored. You don't give any direction in this area? 



Dr. Robertson. We have a constant mteraction with the people in 

 the field. Our scientific staff keep watch over the area for which they 

 are responsible, and where there are gaps, we often sit down with 

 someone who is working in a related field and discuss that. 



We try in the basic research area not to direct the work, but we do 

 try to influence it so that all fields are covered, and so that a broad 

 and effective program is carried on which will serve as a basis for the 

 entire effort in exploitation of marine resources. 



Mr. Rogers. I understand the concern about not directing every- 

 thing, but I am concerned about the fact that it seems that the National 

 Science Foundation probably operates in somewhat the same manner 

 as the National Institutes of Health, bascially, so that it has been my 

 feeling that you have not done enough directing and guidance — I 

 realize that you cannot say, "I want you to do this, and only this'' — 

 to give more guidance in the field that can then be used for applied 

 science. 



This is one of the criticisms we have of the National Institutes of 

 Health, as well, and it appears it exists here. 



Also, I am concerned that it seems most of the institutions that you 

 are supporting are pretty much clumped in about 12 areas or 12 States. 



I would hope that you would look at new institutions more than 

 has evidently been done. I think there is a habit, because of their 

 competency, "to go to Scripps, Woods Hole, Miami, and some others, 

 probably as well. I would hope you would begin now to spread out 

 the sea grant college program. I don't think the National Science 

 Foundation has the full understanding of the thrust which Congress 

 wants in this field, nor the importance that we attach to the sea grant 

 college program. You should broaden the base of the program. There 

 are seven vessels assigned to the University of California Scripps In- 

 stitution of Oceanography that we are supporting in part or perhaps 

 completely. 



I am sure they are doing competent work, but we also need to 

 broaden this base to get more people involved. 



I don't think 1,300 people is a very large number to have been 

 interested in and brought into this education program, as you list 

 here, when 700 out of the 1,300 are the general public and 273 are 

 secondary school teachers. As I understand, many of your programs 

 for secondary school teachers are not exclusively devoted to marine 

 sciences, as reported on page 16, but simply may have a few marine 

 science courses in them. 



I would hope that the National Science Foundation can exert more 

 leadership in this area of broadening and more fully utilizing the sea 

 grant college program as a machinery to bring in new institutions 

 that are anxious to come in, that have people who want to do some- 

 thing in this area, rather than holding to the old line institutions. 

 This would be the easy way to do it, and would be the natural thing, 

 because there is a competency there already built up. 



I hope that with this new program that the Congress has enacted 

 you can now begin to branch out and develop on a very broad basis. 



