375 



Nonetheless, tlicy are moving somewhat out of scale. 



Mr. Pelly. That (Certainly gives me a good answer to nay inquiry. 



I was rather amazed to return to my district, which is in Seattle, 

 and to find that a junior or community college was training technical 

 people in oceanography. It would seem that, if this were a broadening 

 out in the educational field to that level, then we should be meeting the 

 needs of the scientific community. However, apparently we are not 

 catching up with the demand since the programs are just now starting. 



Dr. KELSoisr. Mr. Chairman, could I make one more observation that 

 may be of interest to the committee ? 



I have the pleasure of serving at least for now as the chairman of 

 the Marine Council's Panel on Education and Manpower. That panel 

 met most recently only yesterday, and the primary matter under dis- 

 cussion was how do you measure the demand function. It is a very 

 difficult one. 



Directly under the auspices of the Marine Council itself, this venture 

 is starting. I hope that it will produce some of the answers of interest 

 to this committee, as well as to the Foundation. 



Mr. Pellt. The Government policy as far as space is concerned, 

 where the programs are so huge and vast, has been to counteract 

 drained off manpower by grants to educational institutions, enriching 

 the whole field, and enabling private industry to get the engineers 

 and other technical people that it needs. I surmise that such an ap- 

 proach is somewhat along the line which you have indicated. 



Dr. Kelson. Yes, sir. One of the problems that one gets into in this 

 sort of situation is essentially as follows : Let us assume for the moment 

 that a primary, perhaps the primary employer of marine science per- 

 sonnel is the Federal Government. 



One way of getting a look at this shortage problem, if there is one, 

 is to, in effect, quiz the Federal Government's own agencies as to where 

 they stand in their manpower needs in this area. 



I suspect that the panel of the Council concerned with these mat- 

 ters is going to do just that although with a certain amount of dif- 

 fidence. Government agencies, as well as non-Government agencies, 

 get questionnaired quite a bit, and one does not initiate another round 

 of questionnaires without making sure that the results are really 

 needed. 



But I think that the best place to start to get a handle on this 

 quantitatively is within the Government's own family. 



Mr. Pelly. With further reference to Mr. Rogers' questions and 

 his interest in seeing that the whole base is broadened, I recall that a 

 previous witness in these hearings furnished a list of the various edu- 

 cational institutions which were applying or had applied for Govern- 

 ment grants. I found missing from that list a community college 

 which I knew to be very much interested. I, therefore, thought "it 

 strange that it did not submit a proposal. However, I later learned 

 that its proposal had been coordinated through the major educational 

 institution in my district, the University of Washington. 



So that consequently, because of such local coordination, the pro- 

 gram may be much broader than appears on the surface. 



I thoroughly approve of cutting down required trips by various 

 educational institutions to Washington and all the work and cost that 



