386 



Mr. Kakth, I would like very much, if I may, to explore a few 

 thoughts and observations, and perhaps questions, with the doctor. 



I agree with the gentleman from Florida that I really don't think 

 on the basis of the testimony I have heard thus far, that the National 

 Science Foundation is "directing" in the academic field as much as 

 they ought to be, and probably is putting too much effort in fields 

 where they ought not to be. 



I did. Doctor, find it very educational to go over your testimony 

 with you, and agree that the National Science Foundation is like an 

 octopus. It has many interests in the field of oceanology going in many 

 directions at the same time, 



I am not sure because of that, that we get the biggest payoff for the 

 dollars invested. 



Your interest and expenditures are explained in composite, but 

 they are not broken down, and one of the questions I would like to 

 ask is : How much of the $37i/2 million that the National Science Foun- 

 dation will spend in this next fiscal year on oceanography-related mat- 

 ters is going into the specialized research facilities area ; how much is 

 going into the building of ships and/or the operation of ships, includ- 

 ing the salary of the winch operator for example; and how muOh is 

 going into physical oceanography or biological oceanography, and any 

 of the other areas of interest that you mentioned in your paper? 



I agree thoroughly with the gentleman from Florida that your 

 primary, if not your exclusive, interest ought to be in the educational 

 area, supporting undergraduate work, graduate work, research at the 

 universities, summer courses and teacher training programs, and so on, 

 but I am not so sure that you are not spending an inordinate amount of 

 your budget in what amounts to applied research and development. 



So if you could furnish those amounts of money that you are going 

 to spend in each one of these specified areas for the record, even though 

 it may be difficult to do so, I think we would find it very helpful, 

 Doctor. 



Dr. Robertson. I could summarize it now from some figures that I 

 have, and supply more detail for the record. 



Mr. Karth. I would like it in complete detail.^ 



Dr. Robertson. All right; in complete detail for the record. 



I would like to point out that only in the sea-grant program do we 

 have authority to support applied research. The rest of our funds are 

 still limited to the support of basic scientific research, and to the sup- 

 port of education in the sciences. 



Now, the funds that we have planned in fiscal 1968 include about 

 $19 million for basic research project support. This can be broken down 

 into biological oceanography, $9 million 



Mr. Karth. Doctor, if I may interrupt you, I would like to also 

 have you break down the specific research projects, because there is a 

 good deal of difference in opinion as to what is basic, and what is ap- 

 plied, and for that matter, what even might be development. 



If you could do that for me, I think we would get a perfectly clear 

 picture of j ust where the money goes. 



Dr. Robertson. I will just summarize very briefly, then, and provide 

 the detail for the record. Nineteen million dollars goes to basic re- 

 search project support, and we have to be quite careful that it is basic, 



