465 



making data relays in support of this project, and even as early as 

 1963 and 1964 agreements and contracts were entered into. 



I am sure the distinguished members of the other committee knew 

 that, but I was not privileged to have that information. I think it is 

 rather tragic that we did not seize the opportunity to have you folks 

 come to tell us about this earlier because in the minds of the American 

 people the image of space is fantastic, emotional, and gratifying, 



Right now you find a little feeling throughout the country that 

 perhaps we ought to take another look at this space program because 

 of its cost on a national level because of some of the other problems we 

 are involved in. So many people relate space primarily to the national 

 defense posture to justify their support of it. 



In the light of the budgetary problems and the fact we have had 

 an unbalanced budget for only 6 years out of the last 38, I was privi- 

 leged to ask some questions of DOD here about 2 weeks ago to deter- 

 mine as best I could NASA's contribution to our overall national de- 

 fense posture and its relation to it. 



I was a little upset by the testimony given by the representatives of 

 DOD with regard to the contribution of NASA to our so-called pro- 

 gram as it relates to national defense. 



I think it is well that we have this discussion this morning, parti- 

 cularly what you have said, Mr. Rogers, that it is a rather small part 

 of their total annual budget. If you are making this contribution to 

 the development of oceanography and have been doing that since 

 back in 1963, 1 am interested. The program of IRLS is spelled out in 

 detail on page 22 of this splendid booklet you put out, and this in- 

 terests me, too. 



_ I understand that this system will be scheduled for test flight some 

 time early next year. You hope it will eventually be capable of fixing 

 positions and recording data twice a day. You showed from the slides 

 how this instrument would be in touch with buoys and vessels through- 

 out a great part of the ocean's surface. 



Coming back to the establishment of the National Council on Mar- 

 ine Resources and Engineering Development, that act was signed into 

 law on June 21 of last year. The National Council had its meeting on 

 August 17 of last year. 



Even 3 years before the National Council came into being NASA 

 had been engaged in connection with the oceanographic school of the 

 Navy and a number of other interested Government-financed agencies 

 in the field of oceanography. 



Is that a fair statement ? 



Dr. Seainians. Yes ; it is, Mr. Chairman. 



I would like to amplify the point so there is no misunderstanding 

 here. So one does not think we are moving into oceanography in a 

 manner that migh not be desirable 



Mr. Lennon. I am not making that point. The Navy could see the 

 potential of the satellite relays. I am sure there was a mutual situation, 

 and they came to you folks. Frankly I didn't know about it. I am de- 

 lighted to hear this. This is more justification for support of the space 

 program. 



