23 



the cost of growth, and considering a part of that cost that has to 

 be tied to that formula, is the energy cost of Btu input. 



Mr. Adams. Yes, sir. 



Mr. FoRSYTHE. Because my suspicion is, you get into high dollar 

 cost without even looking at the energy formula. The high dollars 

 are going to represent Btu's in many, many ways. 



Mr. Adams. Yes, sir. 



Mr. FoRSYTHE. So if you can help us in that regard, I would 

 appreciate it. 



Thank you for your testimony. 



You have intrigued me greatly. 



Mr. Adams. Could I have one more moment, sir, to respond to a 

 couple of points that you raised earlier, that I wanted to address? 



One was the list of activities, and why, after this whole series of 

 work, since 1972, we do not have that tied down better than we do 

 right now. Why we do not have a better handle on the economics. 



Well, up until just 1978, most of that work has been what you 

 might call breadboard work, very small scale work, or work of a 

 steady nature. Only recently have we begun to undertake the large 

 scale work that would let us begin to understand what the cost and 

 economics would be. That is the first point that I wanted to 

 indicate. 



The second point that you made this morning, about if we made 

 a lot of alcohol from grain, would we not end up importing more 

 oil? 



Just one more point, because I did take us into kind of a techni- 

 cal discussion, to indicate where the energy intensity is, as it 

 pertains to the distillation process. As a practical matter, the ethyl 

 alcohol used, according to the recently completed DOE policy study 

 on alcohol, will not be so large that it would cause such perceptible 

 changes, and indeed, we believe that grain alcohol can make impor- 

 tant local and community level, or regional even, contributions in 

 the near term. It is a near-term liquid hydrocarbon option, which 

 as you indicate we do know how to do. 



By the mideighties we think we are going to be in a position to 

 make ethyl alcohol in a straightforward manner, much more 

 straightforward manner, from products which are not edible raw 

 materials that are so competitive, things like cellulose, cellulose 

 material. We think that we will have the technical knowledge 

 together to do that, and understand what the costs are. 



Mr. FoRSYTHE. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. Emery has arrived. 



Mr. Studds. Mr. Emery, your turn. 



Mr. Emery. Thank you very much. 



I wonder if you could tell us what you have done in the arena of 

 harvesting various kinds of seaweeds, especially rockweed, or kelp, 

 Irish moss, or any of these common indigenous algaes? Have you 

 done any specific work with the technique of harvesting them by 

 machine as opposed to harvesting them by hand? 



Mr. Adams. I cannot answer that. 



Bob, do you have an answer to that? 



Dr. San Martin. Mr. Emery, our work in that area has been 

 relatively limited. Even though we have been working since 1976 

 with individuals at Columbia University, looking at harvesting and 



