84 



I think that your question really relates to how quickly the 

 Federal Government reacts. My experience is that the executive 

 branch's calendar is usually 2 years behind the legislative calendar 

 because of the bureaucracy involved. Consequently, I believe that 

 while change is hard to see now, within a year or two more, you 

 will see our programs begin to become more responsive to the 

 statements from the Congress about what the national needs are. 



We will be able to give you a lot more information about things 

 such as drilling muds. This plan is a much better technique for 

 improving the helter-skelter planning process that is underway in 

 the Federal Government. 



Mr. Studds. Do you have any way of knowing whether any other 

 agencies view it the way you do and use it to the extent that you 

 do? 



Mr. Walsh. Yes, we have heard that it is being used by budget 

 examiners throughout the Government. 



Mr. Studds. Did you find — and I expect you did — duplication 

 where no one knew it existed in terms of the application of re- 

 search effort? 



Mr. Walsh. Yes, sir. There are programs that look like they are 

 overlapping, and we have indicated that we think that those either 

 ought to be sorted out or changed or new projects should be under- 

 taken in certain areas. 



Mr. Studds. When you find such things, I guess all you can do, 

 and all that can be done under this program, is to make it abun- 

 dantly clear, and hope that in turn they will make the riqht 

 judgment. 



Mr. Walsh. Yes, sir. 



We respect the fact that power in the Federal Government is 

 decentralized through many committees, agencies, bureaus, and 

 offices; and we certainly are not going to tell them they must cut it 

 out. 



But once the information is down on paper, and you have a 

 document to use a tool for evaluation 



Mr. Studds. I hope somebody has the authority to say, cut it out, 

 if three agencies are doing the same thing. 



Mr. Walsh. I think more and more senior managers are saying, 

 "If somebody else is doing it, let's not do it. If we need to get into a 

 gap area, let's go for it." I think what it does is give senior manage- 

 ment in the Government a better handle. 



Mr. Studds. How substantial a change would you anticipate in 

 next year's version of the 5-year plan, the first revision of it? 



Mr. Walsh. I think it will be a lot more refined. First of all, we 

 will have a much better idea of how much each agency is planning 

 5 years down the line. We have established general guidelines. 



In addition, we are going to get into, in more depth, the largest 

 area, petroleum, and begin to get down to project levels and to 

 program purposes. There is a lot of money going into petroleum. 

 Energy has become the budget watchword. People down the line 

 say that energy is selling this year, and we need to do some 

 pollution studies. 



The cumulative impact is that there are a lot of programs which 

 are not coordinated. Through this plan we think in the petroleum 



