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information that would enable us to make a decision on the impact 

 of their activities on the receiving 



Mr. Breaux. Suppose an applicant says, "Look, there are 18,000 

 studies on this, I don't know which one to believe. People are 

 studying the studies. But here is the concentration, I want a 

 permit." 



Can you deny the permit without showing that it is harmful? 



Ms. CoMPTON. We can ask him for the bioassay and bioaccumula- 

 tion data. If he doesn't submit that data, I believe we have the 

 authority to deny the permit. 



Mr. Breaux. That is kind of big — you believe. Are you in charge 

 of granting the permits for EPA? 



Ms. CoMPTON. Yes, I am. 



Mr. Breaux. You are not sure whether the burden is on the 

 applicant or is on the EPA to say this is not healthy? That is the 

 critical point, whose burden it is? 



Ms. CoMPTON. I agree. And it is my understanding if they do not 

 submit the data that we think is necessary to make a decision on 

 whether they can discharge a particular pollutant, we can deny 

 them a permit to discharge the pollutant. 



But I would feel more comfortable in supplementing the record. 



Mr. Breaux. I would like to see it, not only for the record, I 

 would like you to submit to me and also to the committee an 

 answer to exactly what I asked, whose burden it is? I get somewhat 

 disturbed by our Government that can say unless you can prove it 

 is not harmful, we are going to say you can't do it. It seems to me 

 it is incumbent on the part of the Government and regulation 

 saying in our opinion you have given us this information and our 

 studies indicate that it is not something we can accept. 



But the information I have here this morning is we have a lot of 

 studies and everybody is studying the studies but none of them are 

 definitive and final. Therefore, it is impossible for anyone to make 

 a case that they would in no way create potential harm; that is, a 

 permit would never be granted under that scenario? 



Ms. CoMPTON. Congress, in section 403 of the Clean Water Act, I 

 emphasize, gave the EPA the responsibility to determine with 

 regard to ocean dischargers whether there would be degradation of 

 those waters; in order to make that determination we need the 

 information called for in the act. 



Mr. Breaux. They give you information on what they are dump- 

 ing in the water, there is no question about that, is there? 



Ms. COMPTON. No. 



Mr. Breaux. Then it is incumbent upon EPA to make the deci- 

 sion whether it is harmful or not; it is not the burden of the 

 applicant. 



Ms. CoMPTON. OK, I misunderstood your earlier question. We can 

 ask them for information to determine its toxicity but not necessar- 

 ily what actual degradation that will occur. 



Mr. Breaux. That is EPA's burden. Is that EPA's burden? 



Ms. CoMPTON. I would feel more comfortable if I provided this in 

 a supplemental statement. 



Mr. Breaux. I know you have been only 3 months and I don't 

 know what Congress is about after 8 years. I can't expect you to 

 know all the answers in 3 months, obviously. But that is one of the 



