257 



Mr. Brown. No, I stand corrected. It does not cover military 

 vessels. 



Mr. Studds. It does not? 



Mr. Brown. It does not. 



Mr. Studds. Again, you are probably not the one to ask, but that 

 leads me to wonder whether our own Ocean Dumping Act applies 

 to our own public vessels. 



Mr. Brown. Let me again turn to 



Mr. Studds. That is probably a question, in fairness, to ask EPA. 



Mr. Brown. We will have to check the records for that. 



Mr. Studds. Do not worry about that. That one is not urgent. 



But if your answer is that the London Convention does not apply 

 to the public vessels of the nation states adhering to the Conven- 

 tion, then is there any legal prohibition on the dumping of radioac- 

 tive wastes by national military forces? 



Mr. Brown. That, too, I guess we would have to go back to the 

 lawyers on that one. The question has never been posed to us. It is 

 not something that has yet come up. I certainly think 



Mr. Studds. The military forces are increasingly in possession of 

 these materials, as you understand. 



Mr. Brown. Our best guess on that one is more than a guess, 

 that if radioactive wastes were dumped from a military vessel, it 

 would not be covered by the London Dumping Convention. That is 

 a possible loophole. 



Mr. FoRSYTHE. If the gentleman will yield. 



The point really is not whether it is the vessel. It is military 

 waste dumping on a public vessel, or whatever. So as far as you 

 know, there is no connection between military waste and the Con- 

 vention, I gather. 



Mr. Brown. I do not — I have read the Convention, and I do not 

 remember that it made a distinction in terms of the source of the 

 wastes. What it does is it simply defines the dilution, if you will, or 

 the radiation of the mass. 



Mr. FoRSYTHE. Because here, our waste problem is about 90 

 percent military, and if that kind of ratio is worldwide, and it is 

 not covered, we have a real problem. 



Mr. Studds. Yes, I do not want to 



Mr. FoRSYTHE. Thank you. 



Mr. Brown. Mr. Chairman, could I read you the article that 

 covers this, from the Convention? Article VII, paragraph 4 states: 



This Convention shall not apply to those vessels and aircraft entitled to sovereign 

 immunity under international law. However each Party shall ensure by the adop- 

 tion of appropriate measures that such vessels and aircraft owned or operated by it 

 act in a manner consistent with the object and purpose of this Convention, and shall 

 inform the Organization accordingly. 



Mr. Studds. I doubt that there is a lawyer around who could not 

 weasel out of that last proviso. 



Mr. Brown. I will defer to the lawyers. 



Mr. Studds. For example, the U.S. Navy has sunk at least one 

 decommissioned submarine reactor in the ocean, and there is the 

 question of what to do with nuclear powered vessels, in general. 



Let me allow other members to go on. I am going to have to 

 enforce this strictly, the 5-minute rule, because we have a long day. 



Mr. Pritchard? 



