572 
—Without a New International Legal Regime, there can be no reve- 
nue from Ocean Space for the Less Developed Countries ; 
—In the absence of an overall international Agreement, operating ar- 
rangements on. a reciprocal basis between a few Great Maritime 
Powers could probably be worked out, and as a practical matter 
would likely provide the requisite certainty to encourage the min- 
eral development of the Deep Ocean. 
10. The United States has an important stake in World Public Order, his- 
torically in the “Public Order of the Oceans’, and it should not hesitate to 
use its strong bargaining position to secure Public Order in Ocean Space on 
fair and reasonable terms. 
I am grateful to Senator Pell and this Committee for the opportunity to present 
these views. 
Mr. Hanna. Then it seems to me that there is one other point that 
needs some attention in terms of our approach and that is that as I 
read it there are different attitudes toward sovereignty and how you 
are willing to break off your sovereignty in some of the leading na- 
tions. I think that the attitude of some people in the United States has 
been a little more liberal than you could claim for some other places in 
terms of their willingness to be subjected to decisions made outside our 
country. 
- [ think that a narrow approach would be that although you might 
have an international authority that its encroachment on your sov- 
erelgnty would not go any further than specific treaties and agree- 
ments spelling out very definitely where their operational lines were. 
I doubt that you would go very far if you didn’t spell that out very 
strongly. I can’t see the World Bank, for instance, as being a law- 
maker. It operates on the basis of its ‘swat which is cash which is a 
pretty big swat, and you can get the conduct and response of parties 
predicated not upon the fact that this is law but predicated on the fact 
that you have something they want and if they don’t do what you tell 
them you withhold the thing desired, which is another way to get 
conduct ironed out, but it isn’t predicated on law. 
Maybe you have some idea of putting this kind of swat into the 
international authority. 
Senator Peri. The problem is that there are so many inevitable con- 
flicts. For instance, an oil rig might be constructed in a fishing ground ; 
some law or some authority must determine who has what rights and 
where. 
What I find so hard to believe is that we have a body of law gov- 
erning outer space as to the discoveries made on the moon; while it 
has not been spelled out, there is some body of law that covers the 
resources of outer space, ‘but we don’t have any such body of law to 
cover the resources of inner space or ocean space. 
Mr. Hanna. Well, Mr. Chairman, T think that there is a distinction 
to be made in terms of expressions that are called law that are barely 
general in their coverage and those things that are real active law 
which in my judgment don’t come into being at all until you have 
created a situation in which there is a power on the part of one party 
and a duty on the part of another party and an enforcement agency in 
between to be sure that the party with the power can wield it and the 
party with the duty has to assume it and if you haven’t got to that 
pont, it seems to me you have got a rather weak situation to be calling 
it law. . 
