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We are preparing now to embark on an equally great and important 
program, the program involving utilization of the oceans. We should 
not just start in without assessing the shortcomings of these other 
programs and how we might improve the effectiveness and cut down 
the time of utilization of results in order that we realize more quickly 
the investment we shall make in the ocean field. 
Assessing these problems, and the relationship to their basis in 
legislation, should therefore, be given careful consideration in ap- 
proaching the reorganization which must cope with these problems. 
These are with us in spite of the remarkable progress that the space 
program and nuclear energy program have made in utilizing the 
university community. 
Mr. Lennon. Counsel has some questions. 
We are delighted to have him. 
Mr. ‘Crrnean. Doctor, just one or two questions for clarification. 
You have emphasized the problems the universities face in utilizing 
matching funds. In bringing these problems to the Congress are you 
suggesting that the problem can only be solved through legislation or 
are there steps that can be taken administratively or through the Sea 
Grant program to help alleviate the problems? 
Dr. Grirris. I believe the problems will have to be solved both 
through new legislation and also by administrative action. Part of the 
solution can undoubtedly come administratively : techniques for proj- 
ect quality control and improved contract definition are pertinent here. 
A greater opportunity, however, will come from legislation which 
motivates industry and other organizations in the private sector to par- 
ticipate and invest in research with the universities. This should be 
especially effective when the results of the research are anticipated to 
benefit the economy through spinoff or technology transfer. Here, I 
would expect that new forms of contracting with industry, providing 
for subcontracts with universities, might be effective. As an educator, 
I tend to think that many things can be resolved through an educa- 
tional process some of which may be idealistic. I think nonetheless our 
experience in going into this problem of cost sharing is both a matter 
of concern and a matter of great opportunity. 
One of the problems of quicker utilization of the results of science, 
engineering and applied research and the interfacing with the indus- 
try, one of the problems is to speed up this process of transfer of ap- 
pled science into technology and economic utilization. This process 
involves the relationships between universities and industries. I see 
this cost-sharing concept as a tremendous opportunity for bringing 
more closely into this partnership the other member of the partner- 
ship, namely industry, in a much larger sense of participation with 
the universities than they have ever done before. I believe Congress 
must take some initiative here. 
We are seeing a few little experiments being undertaken with the 
present small sea grant program, but these experiments need to be 
studied, they need to be encouraged, they need to bring this interface 
between industry and the universities into a totally new concept. 
Mr. Crrncan. You seem to mention also, if I understand you cor- 
rectly, that with regard to the matching funds, there is some problem 
as to what portions of universities resources could properly be con- 
sidered as a part of the matching funds. Can this be resolved within 
the existing legislative framework ? 
