el 
taken, including surveys of the sea bottoms, but it completely leaves 
out such organizations as the marine section of the Geological Survey 
or the marine section of the Bureau of Mines, or the Maritime Admin- 
istration or, most particularly, the Coastal Research Laboratories of 
the Army Engineers. 
In other words, it includes an aspect of the ocean that is terribly 
important to a lot of people, that is its interaction with the atmos- 
phere, and particularly the monitoring, surveying and forecasting as- 
pect, but leaves out certain of the matters of the ocean environment 
and the ocean resources. 
My personal opinion is that we might do better to have the various 
civilian concerns with the ocean all in one package, leaving the atmos- 
pheric things in a separate package, and rely on coordination of the 
two, rather than having them both partially in the same agency. 
In other words, with respect to ESSA, then, one might go back to 
the way it was earlier. You would leave the Weather Bureau, and so 
on out of the ocean agency, the National Center for Atmospheric 
Research in NSF, or put it over in ESSA, but take the Coast and 
Geodetic Survey from ESSA and put it, together with NODC, Coast 
Guard and Maritime Administration together with the ocean responsi- 
bilities of Interior, in the new agency. 
Mr. Mosuer. So as your first organizational step you would recog- 
nize the ocean activities. 
Dr. Scuarrer. Yes, I would put all of the civilian oceanic mission 
oriented activities in one package. 
Mr. Mosuer. You would make the new organization in that respect, 
the ocean respect, more inclusive than the Commission recommended ? 
Dr, Scuanrer. Yes, sir. 
Mr. Mosuer. At the same time, though, I hope you are not denying 
in any way or deemphasizing in any way the fact as I understand it, 
and I am only a layman, that the oceans and the atmosphere have to 
be considered as part of a single system. That is, you can’t work with 
the oceans without working with the atmosphere and vice versa, is 
that true? 
Dr. ScuArrer. Yes, sir; and I went into this in rather more detail 
in the paper I gave at Tom Clingan’s seminar. As I pointed out there, 
taxonomy only exists in the minds of men. Actually the word is a con- 
tinuum. All things are related to each other. But, unfortunately or for- 
tunately, as one looks at it, you have to break it up into pieces to deal 
with it. The ocean is related to the atmosphere. It is also related to 
the seabeds. 
Then you find that the atmosphere, of course, is very much controlled 
by the solar radiation, and so on. You also find the heat flow from the 
center of the earth, that affects the ocean, is related to problems of 
radioactivity in the earth’s center. 
So, if you put everything together, pretty soon you have such a large 
department that you have to break it up into bureaus within the de- 
partment. All I am expressing is my own bias toward putting all the 
civilian aspects of the ocean and its usés and our mastery of it, and 
our handling of its environment, into one package, recognizing we 
have to work together with the atmospheric people, but leaving the 
coupling between atmosphere and ocean, organizationally, a little more 
loose, and having the coupling of all of the various civilian uses of the 
ocean a little closer. 
