838 
Dr. Wrens. All right, sir. If I could just give a brief response, 
though, to that point, I think the question before us, somewhat over- 
simplified, could be phrased this way: If we had a chance to start 
over, would we organize the Government the way we are organized 
today to do the job set forth in Public Law 89-454? And my answer 
to that is, No; if we had a chance to start over, I would not advise 
organizing the way we are today. 
Mr. Lennon. Not having that chance, what should we do? 
Go ahead. 
Dr. Wenk. Thank you. Let me add, Mr. Chairman, that we should 
not be enchanted by reorganization as a panacea. Unless more funds 
are made available, the Commission’s objectives will not be achieved. 
In today’s budgetary climate, there is absolutely no expectation that 
the very large increases visualized by the Commission can be realized, 
and thus reorganization cannot possibly have the result they sought 
in the short run. 
Mr. Downtne. You say, unless more funds are made available. 
Exactly what are you talking about? What are you operating under 
now? 
Dr. Wenx. Well, I am referring, Mr. Downing, to the goals which 
the Commission set forth in their report, which they believe could be 
accomplished, as I understand it, with reorganization on the one hand, 
in the sense of a better piece of machinery, but with some gas in the 
tank. The money that is necessary to accomplish their goals, at their 
timetable, as you suggest here, is not in the cards in the near future. 
Mr. Downrne. All right. Thank you. 
Mr. Detienpack. Just what is the difference in the amount of gas 
you have got to have ? 
Dr. Wenk. The Commission was quite specific in this regard in their 
report on page 256 and a few earlier pages. They note within their 
scope of definition of marine activities, not including the military, 
that there is being spent today approximately $900 million each year, 
a vay substantial fraction of which, incidentally, is in the Coast 
uard. 
Mr. Detienpack. That is being appropriated ? 
Dr. Wen. Appropriated each year, roughly. 
They propose approximately doubling this in a 10-year period. But 
they emphasize that the growth in the program should begin im- 
mediately and, in fact, if I may quote, they say they would propose 
“a more rapid growth early in the coming decade and a leveling off 
of expenditures in later years,” and I think what I am saying is that 
that philosophy of theirs is unlikely in today’s budgetary climate. 
I guess what I was saying was that, given the agreement on the 
merits of the goals, and even given an agreement on the merits of re- 
organization in the long run to achieve these goals, in the short run 
the funding they propose, increases—incidentally, of perhaps $400 mil- 
lion a year—are unlikely in the next year or two. 
Mr. Mosner. Mr. Chairman ? 
Mr. Lennon. Off the record. 
(Discussion off the record.) 
Mr. Lennon. Back on the record. 
Dr. WenxK. Mr. Chairman, why don’t I concentrate most of my 
review here on this question of NOAA, and with your permission, 
