849 
Mr. Hanna (presiding). Let the record show that Mr. Lennon was 
called away from the committee to attend an executive session of the 
Interstate and Foreign Commerce Committee. 
Mr. Schadeberg? 
REORGANIZATION WITHOUT ADDITIONAL FUNDS 
Mr. Scuapeperc. Mr. Chairman, the main thing which must be done 
is to get started immediately. Even though adequate funds may not 
be available to accomplish the goals which the National Oceanic and 
Atmospheric Agency is to ultimately attain, there is a definite need 
to set the organization up and to have a shakedown. If we construct 
the framework of the agency now, some of the bugs will have been 
taken out of the machinery before we really start the vehicle moving. 
Thank you. 
Mr. Hanna. Yes, I am particularly impressed by what the gentle- 
man says because it seems to me that this committee has to be cognizant 
of certain established conditions of today. One example is the capabili- 
ties that we have developed in connection with the space program. 
They are now calling for reassignment because I can tell you from the 
reports in my district that those industries which were committed to 
the space program are finding that they have capabilities which are 
in excess of the requirements that NASA now puts upon them. That 
leaves them with capabilities that now have to be turned to some other 
activity and I think we have to recognize that that is a condition that 
exists in the society. 
The question of money, it seems to me, cuts two ways. One, you have 
already suggested, Mr. Schadeberg, is that some of the activities which 
are already funded in existing agencies might be consolidated under 
one roof. 
Secondly, it seems to me that a country, like an individual enter- 
prise, must make investments with a view of reaching the promise 
and the opportunities that lie just ahead. The point is that you can’t 
invest money to take advantage of opportunities that lie ahead. To 
that extent you are beginning to fall out of the game. 
America can’t at this stage afford to fall out of what is going on in 
the world in general. Another thing that I think we should immedi- 
ately consider is that organization has both limitations and oppor- 
tunities. Sometimes when we see chaos we think we ought to organize 
it. But by just giving it a name and structure and vitality sometimes 
what we get is organized chaos. 
But the fact that it doesn’t completely come together, just as you 
said, Mr. Schadeberg, the shaking down period as well as the building 
up period has to come. As an example, we call a country Peru. And 
because we call it a country, it ought to act like a country, it ought to 
be a country. To everybody from the outside it is a nation, but I have 
been there, and if you go into the section of Peru that is over the hill 
down along the Amazon, if you ask those people what they are, they 
will give you the name of an Indian tribe. 
If you talk about the city of Lima, they never heard of it and if 
anybody is going to come from Lima they will look upon them with 
some askance and hope they go away pretty soon. 
