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needed to understand better the interactions of the ocean environment 
and of the coastal zone and inland waters and the necessity to expand 
that body of knowledge. There have not been sufficient resources 
devoted to that in the past and there is some urgency in doing that. 
Mr. Mosuer. Don’t you think the Commission’s report reflected that 
same urgency ¢ 
Mr. Brees. Yes, it did and I quite agree with that. I would suggest, 
however, that rather than create a large new agency with broad opera- 
tional responsibilities, at least some consideration should be given to 
the creation of an agency more on the lines of NASA which, as you 
know, has spun off operational capabilities as they were developed to 
other agencies. 
The general experience, I think, is that the pursuit of science and 
technology, both in the fundamental sense and the applied sense, has 
been carried out in organizations which did not have operational capa- 
bility. That is reflected in the organization of most industrial firms 
where the great industrial research laboratories are deliberately sep- 
arated from operating divisions of the companies. 
Tt also reflects the experience we have had in the operation of our 
national laboratories, which have been kept divorced from operating 
responsibilities. It has also been reflected in the National Aeronautics 
and Space Administration. 
I think that science and technology are best pursued in an environ- 
ment where they do not have to worry about or are not concerned with 
day to day operational problems. 
Mr. Mosurr. Now, the Commission report repeatedly emphasized 
the need for fundamental technological development in the uses of 
the oceans and, of course, for increased effort in the scientific mterest 
there also. You are suggesting, I judge, that if a new agency is created, 
a new independent agency, NOAA, that the emphasis there should be 
almost completely on those aspects of the need we have, the need to 
take care of the present neglect of fundamental research and to ex- 
pand scientific interests and the emphasis should be in that agency 
on those aspects, without its also having the job administering day-to- 
day operational activities. Is that what you are saying ? 
Mr. Brcgs. Yes, sir. 
Mr. Mosuer. So you make a comparison with NASA, as you suggest 
NASA isa prototype to some extent in that respect. 
Mr. Brees. In regard to the basic method of operations of the agency, 
yes, sir. 
Mr. Mosuerr. Of course, NOAA limited to those activities couldn’t 
begin to have and there wouldn’t be the need for it to have the budget 
that NASA has. It couldn't begin to have the “oomph” in terms of 
agency importance that NASA would have, so would it not be too 
small to really do the job unless it had these other operational activi- 
ties attached to it, too ? 
Mr. Braces. As I read the Commission’s report, it struck me that the 
increment above the existing budget levels of the organizations that 
they were absorbing was very small. It seemed to me that that was the 
area you really want to focus on, that is, the new activity that would 
be added by virtue of creating this new organization. By limiting 
the organization to the areas of science and technology, you would 
focus on that issue. While the agency created on that basis would be 
