S74 
relatively small, it would focus on the major problem, that is the de- 
velopment of a new initiative in science and the technology—the 
ability to create the instruments and the vehicles and the other tools 
that you need in carrying on the exploration and the pursuit of science 
in the oceans and the waters. 
Mr. Mosuer. But even with that limited function, you would think 
that a separate agency would be best rather than to have that function 
added to NASA’s responsibilities, or to the Nationa] Science Founda- 
tion’s responsibilities, or to the Department of Transportation, or the 
Department of the Interior responsibility. 
Mr. Beces. Well, sir, coming out of NASA myself I am prejudice 
in the direction of the Space Agency, but I think certainly that that 
should be considered. I think that should be considered as another 
alternative, 
Mr. Mosner. On page 9 it seems to me is the very essence of your 
testimony. You say, “I suggest, however, that the combination of sci- 
entific and operational programs in one agency may impair the effec- 
tive administration of either activity. Experience indicates that the 
two do not mix well.” 
Do you want to cite what experience you are talking about there? 
Was that your experience in NASA, or are you looking in on ESSA 
perhaps? Are you suggesting that that is what has happened in ESSA, 
or is it your own experience thus far, or the Coast Guard experience 
at some point? Where is the experience that proved this, specifically ? 
Mr. Beces. I think it is difficult to prove this point conclusively. In 
making the statement, I am drawing on the experience I have had 
in industry, in NASA, and in general in the observation of the process 
of proceeding with scientific and technological kinds of programs. 
Again, the experience with the large industrial organizations has 
been that the pursuit of the applied sciences and technology that they 
need for the future growth of the company is best performed in an 
independent industrial laboratory separated from the operational 
parts of the concern. 
I refer to the Bell Telephone Laboratory which is probably the best 
known and perhaps the greatest of the industrial laboratories, but most 
large industrial organizations organize that way. The experience we 
have had with our national laboratories has been that they pursue the 
applied science and technology best when they are not assigned any 
operating responsibilities. 
This has certainly been the experience in our space program. When 
we developed the communications systems satellites and the meteorlog- 
ical satellites, it was considered at one time as to who should operate 
them and it was decided that it would be best if they were spun off to an 
operating agency, in one case to a quasi-public-private kind of an 
organization and in the other case to ESSA. 
_It seems to me that, if an organization has broad operating respon- 
sibilities, of necessity those responsibilities tend to become the most 
important to it because they are pressing day after day. They, likewise, 
tend to come up with frequent crises and it is, I think a natural re- 
action to reach for those resources which are available to you and the 
use of which will not immediately endanger anything. 
So there is a tendency to land on the reasearch and development side 
at that point and to pull people out of research and technology and 
