876 
Mr. Kartu. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to pursue some 
of the questions that Mr Mosher hit upon. 
Mr. Secretary, isn’t it rather difficult to draw that fine line of sep- 
aration between scientific research on the one hand and scientific de- 
velopment on the other; where does one end and where does the other 
one begin ? 
Mr. Brees. Yes, sir. It is. 
Mr. Karru. Isn’t it true that NASA is for all practical purposes 
probably using 90-95 percent of their funds for scientific development ? 
Mr. Beees. I wouldn’t quibble with the percentage, that certainly 
the vast preponderance of money is going into the development. 
Mr. Kartu. Isn’t it also true that the Department of Transportation, 
for example, has this dual responsibility, scientific research on the one 
hand, and the application of that scientific research to development, 
on the other? 
Mr. Breas. In some respects yes, but for example, in aeronautics 
there was a consideration at some point in the history of the creation 
of the Department as to whether the mission for the pursuit of aero- 
nautical sciences should be moved from NASA because of responsibili- 
ties in civil aeronautics, in civil transport. It was decided somewhere 
along the line, that this was not a good idea and so that responsibility 
remained i inNASA. 
There is a certain amount of applied science being pursued i in the 
Department as well as a good deal of development work in trying to 
solve specific problems that we have in our operating side, air traffic 
control and so forth, but I think that is an outgrowth of the basic 
mission, rather than the converse. 
That is, we don’t do the work independently of the operating re- 
sponsibility. It is in answer to a specific problem. We have also not 
created large laboratories in the Department to pursue these things. 
Asa general rule, we have made use of existing national laboratories 
by assigning specific programs to them, or have bought this service 
from industry. 
Mr. Karrn. I can foresee though that the Department of trans- 
portation one day probably in the not too distant future, would want 
some laboratories of their own. 
Mr. Beaes. It is conceivable. 
Mr. Karr. Or jurisdiction over existing Government laboratories 
which probably don’t meet the functional operation for which they 
were originally intended in other agencies, might better be transferred 
to the Department of Transportation later on because of your area 
of responsibility. 
Do you say that that is a fair statement ? 
Mr. Breos. Yes, sir, but if it did happen, I think we would at that 
point consider the or ganizational relationship of those laboratories 
to the operating administrations and certainly g give very serious con- 
sideration to putting those laboratories in a separate kind of an organi- 
zation from any one of the operating administrations. 
Mr. Karra. And don’t you think that the organization proposed by 
the Commission insofar as it relates to NOAA, pretty well fits into 
that same area ? 
Mr. Brees. Yes, it does, but I think there is a difference in degree 
