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Dr. Trreus. Within that limitation, let me make a few comments 
concerning alternatives, and their pros and cons, and I can perhaps 
get at what you would like to hear from me. 
Mr. Dernenpack. Please let me make my question clear. 
IT am not seeking to embarrass you. I am not seeking to embarrass 
the President. I am not seeking to embarrass anybody about this. 
I am just deeply concerned about this problem, as are other mem- 
bers of the subcommittee, so that we are reaching for ideas. 
Here is a specific suggestion which has been made, I suspect. not a 
perfect suggestion, 1.e., the creation of NOAA. If we are going to 
abandon this proposal ‘which has been recommended by a very, very 
prominent Commission, I would like to know what alternatives there 
are available. 
Dr. Trisus. Let me make some statements relative to that, which I 
hope will be helpful. 
We have already said in our testimony that ESSA is an essential 
part of a NOAA concept. We have not said in the NOAA concept 
where it would be, which I think by implication means, however, if a 
NOAA is set up, if we mean business about the NOAA mission, and 
the missions as I have defined them, then it necessarily includes ESSA. 
That is clear. 
Tf someone decides that there is going to be a separate agency, and 
if that separate agency is really separate, then I suppose the Depart- 
ment of Commerce has lost ESSA, but if that 1s what it takes to do 
this mission, that is what it takes. All right. 
We attempted to go through the list of organizations that are essen- 
tial. Some are more essential, and some not so essential. 
Let us take the program which Interior has in the Office of Saline 
Water. I think no matter how you examine that, that could or could 
not be in a NOAA, or whatever we are going to call this agency. 
It is clear that you could look at that in several ways. On the one 
hand, it does have some impact, perhaps locally, on the seacoast, on the 
sea, with the intake of water and exhaust. It has a lot of materials 
problems. 
On the other hand, it really is a power problem, and a water prob- 
lem, and perhaps ought to be looked at more in terms of the fresh 
water supply of the Nation, and perhaps it belongs more in Interior 
than it belongsin NOAA 
What Iam talking about is that we have to go point by point to every 
agency that is proposed for transfer, and ask some hard questions about 
how essential are they to the NOAA concept, and what impact they 
would have on the other programs to which they relate. 
Now, it is in,that context that I have hesitated to say exactly how 
it ought to be, because as soon as I start talking about our programs, 
and other people’s programs, you known as well as I do the implica- 
tions of such remarks, and I am just simply trying to stay away from 
them until the decision has been made at a higher level. 
Mr. Derrenpack. Again, I am not seeking to force a recommenda- 
tion from the Department of Commerce, but I am interested in at least 
knowing the theoretical objections to the NOAA concept. 
You have indicated, as I read your testimony, that you do not feel 
that these various elements which would embrace at least those listed 
at the top of page 12 of your testimony should be kept separate and 
independent each from the other. Is that correct ? 
