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private sector operation, and if we assume as another important goal 
a method of getting major, substantial, increased emphasis on all 
of this, you would accept these as goals? 
Dr. Tripus. Yes. 
Mr. De~iensacn. And you are not saying that the creation of an 
independent agency could possibly not be the best way to bring about 
these goals. You stop short of saying that that is the best way of reach- 
ing these goals. 
Dr. Trisus. Iam not sure when you throw enough negatives together 
what the affirmation is. 
Mr. Detirenpack. Do you accept those as the goals? 
Dr. Trizus. Yes. 
Mr Detiensack. Would you add any other goals as desirable goals? 
Dr. Trisus. I guess I would have to. As you went down the list, I 
think it was an exhaustive list, but I may not have caught everything. 
But you seem to be hitting the principal lines and I agree with those. 
Mr. Deciensack. Those would be major goals. You might have some 
peripheral ones. 
Dr. Trieus. That is right. There are areas of manpower, for exam- 
ple. If you are going to have an industry that is centered around the 
ocean, you are going to have to produce people to get into it. In your 
remarks you did not speak to the issue of encouraging the development 
of research and development in education to support this activity. 
If you are going to introduce change in industry, you have to come 
to grips with the fact that change involves the workingman and you 
have to deal with him. That was an issue that it seems to me needs to 
be brought out. 
I am not so sure, because I just don’t remember whether you put in 
your list the same emphasis I would on the need to develop the eco- 
nomic ties so that you create viable industries as opposed to creating 
something that has to be continually subsidized. 
But the main thrust is that to do this will require something stronger 
than the coordination of a group of Federal activities spread thin 
across the Government. 
Mr. Detienpack. Excellent, and it will also require major change, 
then, over that which is now existent, forgetting for the moment what 
form the change will take. 
Dr. Trizus. I don’t know how major it would turn out to be because 
in many cases we are talking about adding things that don’t exist 
now, and if addition is change 
Mr. Dretienpack. Addition is change. 
Dr. Trigus (continuing). Then of course it is. There will have to be 
major additions if we start to do all of these things. There is no ques- 
tion in my mind that, as I said, the engineering capability outside of 
the Navy, and certainly if you don’t include MarAd, can only be called 
pitiful. 
We have to do a great deal more. That is an addition. In many cases, 
I think, if you take existing operations and group a few of them and 
then fund them and add the people, the result will be as though it had 
been a major transformation, when in fact 1t may not be. 
Mr. Detienpack. But insofar as results are concerned, you think 
there should be a major transformation from that which is now 
existing. 
