945 
Assistant Secretary for Water Pollution Control of the Department of 
the Interior. 
It is a fact, as we have been reminded in the testimony we have had 
from the Government agencies at the Cabinet level, that these gentle- 
men took no part in the recommendations with respect to a so-called 
Government structure, and appropriately so. It is, however, interesting 
to note that the Honorable Charles F. Baird, the Under Secretary of 
the Navy, since he severed his connection with the administration, is 
now of record as approving and recommending the so-called Govern- 
ment structure referred to as NOAA. 
It was interesting yesterday in the colloquy between the Chair and 
the Assistant Secretary of the Department of Commerce and also Dr. 
White, the Administrator of ESSA, that the Assistant Secretary made 
this comment, and I am reminded of the fact that the Assistant Sec- 
retary of Commerce took a like position as you are taking in your state- 
ment today. J read your statement early this morning. 
He made the comment, Mr. Secretary, that he could find nothing 
in the Commission report that indicated that the Commission had 
considered the alternatives in the approximately 214 years that they 
made their study, the ultimate findings and conclusions and recom- 
mendations. 
Fortunately, Dr. White was present. So I asked Dr. White yester- 
day, and have it on the record, that while he did not participate in the 
actual casting of the vote with respect to the recommendation of the 
Government ‘structure, he would have to say for the record that the 
Commission considered all the alternatives, all the alternatives before 
they came up with this recommendation. 
Now, fortunately we had both of them here yesterday. I think it is 
interesting for you to keep in mind the other departments, and the 
people representing the Federal agencies which are involved in the 
field. Certainly it is good that we have it in the record from one of 
these Government representatives on the Commission that the Com- 
mission did consider all the alternatives. 
I thought it appropriate to get it in the record again this morning 
in connection with your statement. 
I hope I won’t interrupt you any more, but I may. Thank you. 
Mr. Train. I think it wise to ‘consider whether a new agency is 
really necessary. To us it appears to separate resource programs and 
thereby inhibit comprehensive environmental management. If this 
Nation is to be successful in solving the complex problems of the en- 
vironment, its organizational structure and program ele 
must be directed toward managing the environment as a totality 
complex, inextricably related natural system. 
Separating the ocean and the atmosphere from the land and fresh 
waters ignores this fact. Furthermore, I think it is proper to defer 
action on the organizational recommendations of the commission until 
the President’s Advisory Council on Executive Organization has had 
an opportunity to view ocean affairs in the full context of Federal 
organization as a whole, and to consider all alternatives. 
Mr. Lennon. To get continuity, if I can, at this point in the record, 
we are talking about the Ash Commission, Mr. Secretary ? 
Mr. Train. Yes, sir. 
