954 
Department of the Interior? Certainly you are involved in these mat- 
ters. Do you think it is unwise to create an agency such as NOAA 
which would have very important missions in terms of scientific re- 
search and development and yet at the same time would be an operat- 
ing agency in many areas? Do you think this is impossible? 
‘Mr. Trary. I don’t think it is impossible at all, and in fact I think it 
probably is the way it should be, whether in NOAA or in the Depart- 
ment of the Interior or some place else. 
Now, there are all kinds and shapes of research and I suppose basic 
fundamental research should be kept considerably far away from day 
to day operating responsibilities, but I would say generally speaking, 
that operations and research should go pretty close together. 
Mr. Mosuer. Whether or not they work together is a matter of good 
administration, rather than any basic defect, is that what you are 
saying ? 
Mr. Trarn. [ think that is a fair statement. 
Mr. Mosner. And perhaps the interdependence of research and 
operational activities is so real that good administration had best put 
them in the same agency, or department? 
Mr. Train. Yes, sir. That ismy view. 
Mr. Mosuer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 
Mr. Lennon. Thank you, Mr. Mosher. Mr. Rogers? 
Mr. Rocers. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Secretary, it is good to 
see you before the committee again. I think you make some ood points 
on the capabilities of the Interior Department as we have also had 
from the Department of Commerce, the Department of Transporta- 
tion and so forth. 
I think this is natural, and this is what we would expect—that each 
department would stress their own capabilities and particularly what 
they have been doing. But the report that took 2 years to make and 
which we are now covering has as its gist, and what this committee 
is concerned with really, putting emphasis on the development of our 
marine resources. 
Now, we do have a Department of the Interior for land resources. 
We have a space agency for outer space, and now we are thinking 
about going into inner-space and the resources of the water. If we 
felt it was so necessary to develop the great resources of the land with 
the Department of the Interior, if we “felt that it was significant and 
added emphasis needed to be placed to create a separate agency for 
the department of space, it is somewhat in line in my thinking, to put 
emphasis on the development of the resources of the sea. 
When we compare our activity and what we have done under the 
present arrangement, it causes me even more concern to leave the 
operation in its ‘present jurisdictional bounds. For instance, look at 
fishing. What has been the history of our fishing industry of this 
Nation? Has it gone down or up ? 
Mr. Train. It certainly has not gone up Mr. Rogers. 
Mr. Rocers. I think we could really say It has | gone down—dramat- 
ically. For instance, we are now importing into this country $600 
or $700 million wor th of fish products. 
Mr. Tratn. Some 75 percent of our total consumption. 
Mr. Rocers. And it is something like two out of every three fish in 
the frying pan ora little more, are foreign products. 
