958 
and the thought and who had the technology and skills and back- 
ground to reach the conclusions and recommendations that they have 
had. Have we had that in the past ? 
Mr. Trarn. I don’t know of that, sir, but I really do not know 
how to answer your question. I just don’t have the information. 
Mr. Lennon. I am reminded that in the first session of the 87th 
Congress which would be in 1961, that this committee had before 
it legislatiton which is in substance in many degrees like we have 
before us today. The committee wrestled with it and the committee 
reached no conclusion because the administration then opposed it. 
So we finally resolved to try to move in the direction of creating a 
commission with a broad spectrum of membership from private sec- 
tors of our economy, the laboratories, the universities, the Federal 
Government and scientists in general to make this determination for 
us. 
We thought we ought to bring into being the National Council at 
a high level policy level as a sort of an interim body. The administra- 
tion opposed that. We finally virtually rammed it down its throat and 
in 6 months they were the most enthusiastic supporters of the accom- 
plishment of the National Council, and they have done a great job. 
Now, here we are 8 years later confronted to a degree with the 
same problem, how should we move, what should we do 2 I have just 
read again the memorandum to Mr. Ash from the President, and I 
know that the gentleman has seen that memorandum and it was 
directed to Mr. Ash to consider this very thing that we are talking 
about now. 
Here we get this letter back on September 11, “In about 2 months 
we will begin to consider it and.then at that time we can tell you 
how long before we will be able to say what we are going to say if 
we say anything at all.” ; . 
Now, yesterday the Washington Post had a story that the Presi- 
dent was creating a special task force on oceanography. Are you 
familiar with that? : 
Mr. Trartn. I am not familiar with the details. I read something 
in the paper about it. 
Mr. Lennon. How is that related to the so-called Ash Commission ? 
Will we withdraw from the Ash Commission the memorandum of 
the President for them to make a study and come up with the recom- 
mendations, or alternatives to the Commission’s report, or should we 
have to wait another 3 months for this new task force to get ready 
to start to begin to commence to study. . Q 
What is the relationship of the creatiton of the special task force 
on oceanography to the Ash Commission’s mandate to study this 
thing? 
Mr. Tratn. I can’t answer with any authority, Mr. Chairman. It is 
my understanding that the Ash Commission has been directed to 
study organizational matters and I would guess, and it is a guess, that 
the new task force on oceanography would be looking at substantive 
program matters. ii 
Mr. Lennon. I imagine you will be perhaps one of the members of 
that task force. If so, we will get in touch with you. Mr. Pelly ? 
I don’t quite know what the latter part.refers to because I have 
never found that we had any particular excess fishing from domestic 
