1003 
science councils. I might say that this committee 2 years ago sug- 
gested they form such marine councils. 
We are inviting these representatives here so that people like you, 
who have wrestled with this problem for years, can make your views 
known. I am going to ask counsel to discuss with you at some length 
the possibility of getiing a position paper by the Department of the 
Army through you at. this forum. 
These forums will be moderated by men lke Dr. Edward Wenk, 
just to mention one, and many others. The panelists will represent a 
broad spectrum of people who are interested in the recommendations 
of the Caiienicsion, and we are seeking a way to tell these people how 
far the Federal Government should go under the recommendations of 
the Commission and to what degree the coastal States and Great Lakes 
would be willing to come in and participate in an overall program 
such as you gentlemen have discussed here today. 
I would like very much for you to give us the benefit of your experi- 
ence because I know it has been wide, and particularly in the area of 
eivil works which is in this category. 
We will be back in touch with you because I think it has been indi- 
cated that this committee has been involved in this thing for years, 
General and Mr. Secretary. We have met with frustration in trying to 
even pass the law that we did which created the Commission and the 
National Council. The administration resisted the creation of the Na- 
tional Council saying we didn’t need it and it was repetitious, and 
within 6 months Vice President Humphrey as Chairman and the 
other members of the Council were enthusiastic about what it was 
moving toward and what it was accomplishing. 
We know that based on the composition of that Commission and the 
time, effort, and study they put forth in making their recommenda- 
tions that we have a responsibility. We are mandated in my judgment 
to at least give attention to these matters and try to come up with 
some solutions. 
We want you to help us and want you to understand our problem. 
Most witnesses say that the Commission report projects the national 
interest. We want you to help us find out how to do that. 
Counsel, do you have questions ? 
Mr. Frey ? 
Mr. Frey. Sir, I was in the Navy, and I think at this point I would 
be referred to as a “tail-end Charlie,” Mr. Chairman. I would just like 
to say, gentlemen, that I read your statements. I was in a meeting of the 
Space Committee, of which Iam a member also. 
Mr. Secretary, your remarks seem a little out of context to me be- 
cause you are saying that the program with the ocean should be at 
least equal to or greater than that of space. Yet we have been consider- 
ing a special task force report on the next 10 or 20 years in space with 
funding and emphasis that are considerably different than we look at 
in oceanography. f 
Again, coming last, most of the questions have been asked. 
One of my questions is: Where would we be in the space program if 
we had not taken this type of action and put national emphasis on it? 
I think your answer was direct and to the point, and I think this is the 
problem we face in oceanography. Is it as important as the space pro- 
26-563—70—pt, 2 32 
