1015 
I have visited many of the Bureau of Commercial Fisheries pro- 
grams and was very much impressed with what they have done with 
the money they have had, as a matter of fact. 
I think some of their original research on salmon is some of the 
best that has ever been done in the world. I would hope that one would 
have an opportunity to look into the science that they have carried 
out over the years. I do not think they have done a bad job with 
the resources that they have. Surely, there is always room for im- 
provement, just as there is room for improvement in the programs 
of the National Science Foundation. 
Mr. Lennon. I will have to concede that the Department of the In- 
terior has been stimulated by the report of the Commission, especially 
in the field of marine sciences, especially by the fact that the Assistant 
Secretary of the Interior was a member of the Commission, and I am 
sure as a member of the Commission he was pushing the Department 
of the Interior to get moving because something was about to happen. 
T am afraid that is what motivated them because they have shown 
an entirely different attitude with respect to the marine sciences in the 
last 6 months of the Commission’s life and especially since the Com- 
mission report came out. 
Dr. McExroy. Well, I think, Mr. Lennon, it is hearings like this, 
which I admire very much, that will give strength and direction to 
these programs. They indicate the interest of Congress, and I think 
when that is done and we make the commitment, the commitment not 
only in authority but the commitment in funds, that you will see these 
places move. 
I Jook again at the amount of money that is going into oceano- 
graphic program, and we were in a logarithmic increase phase up to 
2 years ago. We were really getting shored up and ready to move. 
One of the big problems was that we did not have manpower to man 
the programs we were talking about, and the universities responded 
to this, not only in training more people but responding by requesting 
the National Science Foundation for money to support these people. 
Mr. Lennon. Doctor, I get the impression that you are satisfied 
with the progress at all levels of marine science. 
Dr. McEtroy. No, sir. I didn’t say that. I hope I did not infer it. 
Mr. Lennon. I am reminded that back in 1961 and 1962 this com- 
mittee was considering legislation which was oriented in the general 
direction of what the Commission has recommended. Each and every 
department and every bureau that had any facet of the marine science 
or oceanology or oceanography opposed it, saying, “We are doing a 
good job, but we think we can do it better than the other agencies.” 
And the administration opposed it, and then finally we decided we 
would go outside the area or realm of government to try to get some 
professional advice, and that is the reason we came up with the legis- 
Jation which established the Commission and mandated it to make the 
study and report to the President and to Congress. 
We sought to try to get a high level of coordinating policy when we 
moved in the direction of the National Council. Of course, you know 
who fought that, the administration. They opposed that. They said, 
“We have an ICO. We don’t need it.” 
We said, “We think we ought to have it.” Six months after we es- 
tablished it, they organized under the leadership of Vice President 
