1017 
Knauss I know as a friend and, particularly, since I was consultant 
to his committee on the Stratton report, | worked closely with him on 
the basic science part of it. 
Mr. Lennon. Could you get him to write in your individual views? 
Dr. McEtory. We were dealing only with the basic science and edu- 
cation. We were not involved in ‘the organizational structure. 
Mr. Lennon. He was a member of the Commission ? 
Dr. McEnory. Yes. 
Mr. Lennon. Who ultimately had to make a decision ? 
Dr. McEnxory. I didn’t talk with him about that, no. 
Mr. Lennon. I see. 
Dr. McExory. I know Dr. White, of course. I think very highly of 
him. Of course, I have just met Mr. Lennon, and I think he is very 
perceptive in asking g questions on this program. I know Senator Mag- 
nuson, whom I knew a long time ago because of our interest in ocean- 
ography, and I have recently met Mr. Mosher, whom I regard very 
highly. 
Mr. Lennon. The congressional members took no part, as you 
know, in anything except trying to relate to the commission con- 
gressional intent with respect to what we hoped to accomplish. 
Now, the gentleman from Ohio, Mr. Mosher. 
Mr. Mostier. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 
Dr. McElroy, this committee has heard conflicting testimony and 
has had conflicting advice concerning this matter of the wisdom and 
the practicality of putting responsibility for day-to-day action in the 
operations in Government, mission-oriented, putting that type of ac- 
tivity together with responsibility for research and development in 
one agency or under one administrative head. 
You have raised that question in your testimony. 
Now, we have had two or three witnesses that have rather urgently 
encouraged us to do that, to put research and operations in the same 
agency, ‘based on their practical experience. They tell us that science, 
research, and particularly applied research and the action programs 
nurture each other and that there is good reason to have them ad- 
ministered together and functioning together. 
On the other hand we have had at least one important witness argu- 
ing that it doesn’t work, and I think he specifically referred to ESSA 
as an example where the administration was so science-oriented that 
the action programs suffered, were neglected. 
Now, you have given us an opposite point of view today. You have 
said that where these are put together in one department at least so 
far as funding is concerned, and I think that 1s where you put the 
emphasis, inevitably the research and the science suffers and the action 
programs are sustained. 
So we have conflicting points of view here. 
Dr. McErroy. Mr. Mosher, I would say that one could look at the 
history for the last 15 years in this country and look at mission- 
oriented agencies and what happens when their funds get cut. 
T happen to have been on the other end and know this very clearly. 
Mr. Mosner. Could you cite an additional example? 
Dr. McErroy. Let’s take the Navy. When the Navy’s funds are cut, 
the first thing that gets cut is the Office of Naval Research, and in 
turn the support of investigators in graduate education research will 
get cut. 
