1207 
The Department of Defense was not really doing space exploration 
except in the very tiny little Vanguard project. 
Mr. Petty. You expressed a fear of fragmentation under NOAA. 
Actually isn’t NOAA a creature to avoid some of the fragmentation 
that now exists under the present organization of the Government ? 
Dr. DuBriwer. I know that is the purpose, but my point here was 
that as you remove one activity from a particular agency you may 
fragment its efforts if one is not very careful. 
Mr. Penny. Well, I thought there is so much fragmentation now 
that that is the reason why so many feel there should be one agency 
set up to house rather similar research and development activities. 
Dr. DuBrincr. Yes, there are so many activities in the field of at- 
mosphere, water, as well as marine and lakes and rivers and so on that 
are spread throughout the Government that just a transfer of these 
to a single agency may not completely remove the fragmentation. 
In fact it may increase some of it in certain particular areas or 
functions. 
Mr. Petiy. Well, I, too, am delighted that the administration seems 
to want to move forward in this field and in these particular five 
endeavors that you enumerated, particularly coastal zones. 
Of course, that is part of the contemplated organization of the 
proposed NOAA. 
Dr. DuBriwex. Yes. 
Mr. Petry. I think there is very widespread support for that, and 
I know in my own State I talked to my Governor and he feels that it 
is essential. 
We will look forward to these proposals. Just exactly how they tie 
in with the plan of this committee to proceed with legislation, I don’t 
know. I presume you have your own ideas, but I wouldn’t be surprised 
if this committee might decide that after 8 years it should report a 
NOAA organization and it might want to put these proposals under 
it. This isa very difficult decision we must make. 
Anyway, I think, as I say, your colloquy with Mr. Mosher did clarity 
about as far as we can get it now the ideas and intentions of the 
administration. 
I think your presence here has been very helpful in that respect. 
Thank you. 
Mr. Lennon. Thank you. 
Mr. Schadeberg? 
Mr. Scuapeserc. Doctor, would you suggest that with the fragmen- 
tation that we have had or even without it as far as that is concerned, 
we have made as much progress as we should have made in marine 
science considering the effort in so many different agencies through 
the past years ? 
Dr. DuBrincr. No, I think more coordination of the effort is very 
clearly needed and you are very much aware of that. Tt is a question of 
how to make this coordination most effective. I think it is very clear 
that coordination of effort is very desirable in this field. 
Mr. Scrrapeserc. Looking at it from the outside and looking in, 
because I am not that deeply involved in it, I feel that probably we 
have had too many agencies or too many efforts with too little sup- 
porting them financially so that we have not made the progress we 
intended. Possibly what we need, and I feel we do, is not necessarily 
