108 
Mr. HuGues. But it is not insignificant. It is a signficant contri- 
bution to the pollution problem that exists. Now, would you also 
agree that as we build more wastewater treatment facilities as we 
are now doing in New York that we are going to have more sludge 
and more dumping of sludge? 
Mr. ScHatzow. We are certainly going to have more. 
Ms. Hurp. Correct. 
Mr. Hucues. So that means that the raw sewage is going to de- 
crease and the sludge if, in fact, we develop other alternatives is 
going to increase? 
Ms. Hurp. That is correct. 
Mr. HuGues. That seems logical to me. 
Now, under those circumstances, how are we going to find out, 
first of all, that what we are doing in the New York Bight is creat- 
ing irreparable harm at this point so that we can prevent that 
from occurring? Or, are we going to end up at some time recogniz- 
ing that we have done that and unfortunately policies have led us 
to the point where there is nothing that we can do about it. When 
do you project that we can find out about the damage that we are 
doing so that we can make some policy decisions? Who will give us 
guidance? 
Ms. Hurp. The first step in looking at the New York situation is 
to look at the alternatives in the evaluation of this next year with 
New York on what the best options are. We will be looking at the 
106 site, the 60-mile site, as well as land alternatives and air alter- 
natives. 
Mr. HuGues. Well, the point is that this committee is the Mer- 
chant Marine and Fisheries Committee and we made a policy deci- 
sion, and it was based upon a number of factors, not the least of 
which is that we can contain on land, a lot better than we can in 
the ocean, the sludge and other things we do not know what to do 
with. No one disputes the fact that we just cannot control sub- 
stances once we put them in the ocean. 
As a general rule we cannot track them very well, we do not 
know what the ultimate impact is going to be, as you indicate in 
your statement. This committee made a policy determination that 
we want to force municipalities and others to look at other alterna- 
tives and not look at the cheapest and easiest way out as other 
communities have done. 
Ms. Hurp. We are not talking about allowing any type of dump- 
ing at any site and there are a number of technical reports that 
talk about certain types of sludge, when managed at the appropri- 
ate site, can be assimilated into the ocean. 
We also have a number of other studies when sludge is not prop- 
erly managed on land or with incinerators with air emissions can 
also cause an impact. 
Mr. HuGuHeEs. Well, we know that the mercury and the cadmium 
that we are dumping in the New York Bight is not being assimilat- 
ed, do we not? From the General Accounting Office reports and 
other reports we know that those particular substances are far 
beyond your established safety level. 
Ms. Hurp. I am not aware of any increase in the cadmium of the 
marine organisms on the east coast. 
