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more in tune to the actual conditions that take place in the envi- 
ronment. 
Mr. D’Amours. Well, given this lack of knowledge and given 
your very severe budget cuts would you suggest at this time that 
we depart from that conservative approach that you have just out- 
lined? 
Dr. Byrne. The position that I would take is that on the basis of 
knowledge that we have, which is considerable, any regulations 
that are adopted be based on that knowledge. I think that wisdom 
would say that we should not go beyond that base of knowledge. 
We are not in a gambling game. We are attempting to provide 
rational use of the ocean on the basis of what we know about it. So, 
I think the short answer to your question is that I would take the 
conservative approach. 
Mr. D’Amours. Thank you. Last year, NOAA testified as to how 
bad the pollution of the New York Bight Apex is, calling it one of 
the most degraded open coastal areas in the whole world. They also 
said that one source of the contaminants is from the Hudson Rari- 
tan Estuary. I understand that the Hudson Raritan Estuary re- 
search project is being abandoned, why is that? 
Dr. ByRNE. This is a budget priority situation, sir. In our judg- 
ment we have learned some things about it. It was an area that 
was cut back strictly on a budgetary basis. 
Mr. D’Amours. But, given the earlier testimony again from EPA 
on the problems involved with the New York Bight, and a percent- 
age of 3 to 10 percent of the pollution, only coming from sludge dis- 
posal and the major sources being elsewhere, would you not think 
that before we continue dumping in the New York Bight that we 
should undertake this kind of research? 
Dr. Byrne. Let me say that the shift that we have taken and the 
focus that we are providing is to conduct the fundamental research 
on the effects of the chemicals and other substances have when we 
put them into the environment. We have had, on a generic basis, a 
number of investigations underway looking at the effects of estuar- 
ine conditions, whether they happen to be the New York Bight 
area, the Hudson Raritan Estuary or Puget Sound. So there is a 
great deal of fundamental information which is available. Howev- 
er, | would say that this particular project, which is specific with 
respect to the region and the locale, is being terminated and we 
will have to draw on the available knowledge that we have from 
our overall body of knowledge with respect to estuarine conditions. 
Mr. D’Amours. OK. Thank you, Dr. Byrne. 
General Gay, I also have questions of you but we are following a 
5 minute clock here so that everybody can have a chance to ask 
questions. I will get back to you on the second round. 
Mr. Carney? 
Mr. Carney. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 
I will start with the General, I believe. General, in your state- 
ment, you are talking about putting 20 percent of your average 
total annual quantities of dredged material under Federal jurisdic- 
tion having them disposed in the ocean. But geographically that 
would change drastically, would it not? 
