145 
nants. Leaching is a surface effect and, even there, we cannot 
detect leaching of contaminants from the sediment mound. 
Mr. HuGues. So the storms and the drift and all the other cur- 
rents do not affect that? 
Dr. ENGLER. In the New York mud dumping site we can account 
for approximately 95 to 99 percent of the material that has been 
dumped there historically, through subbottom profile measurement 
of mounds. 
Mr. HuGues. You know, one of the problems that we have is 
trying to eliminate, through pretreatment and otherwise, things 
like mercury and cadmium, hard metals from material. Now, are 
you involved in that effort at all? 
Dr. ENGLER. Dealing with the EPA solid waste management pro- 
gram? 
Mr. HuGues. Yes; what role do you have with EPA and other 
agencies? 
Dr. ENGLER. We stay very aware of their programs through our 
interactions with the Water Programs Office in EPA. We are not 
directly involved. Now, the corps may well be involved in the Su- 
perfund program which deals with the cleanup of hazardous waste 
fills. With regard to cleaning up permitted discharges at this time, 
we stay very aware of what they are doing. We certainly feel that 
the waterways themselves—— 
Mr. Huaues. Any efforts at pretreatment that is done by EPA, 
you are not involved in that at all? 
Dr. ENGLER. EPA and the States. 
Mr. HuGues. I see. OK. 
Dr. Byrne, EPA testified as follows: 
Unfortunately, we cannot determine scientifically the ocean’s full ability to 
absorb and biologically process toxic wastes nor can we fully track the rate and ef- 
fects of potentially contaminated sludges. 
I suspect you have probably heard that statement, Ms. Hurd 
gave it. Do you agree with that? Dr. Byrne, I think that I alluded 
to this earlier that we would never have all the answers in that 
regard. So, you basically agree? 
_ Dr. Byrne. Yes, but our knowledge base is continually increas- 
ing. 
Mr. HuGueEs. I understand that. The reason that I bring that up 
is because I was interested in something you said before in re- 
sponse to my colleague from New York about the situation never 
getting to the point where it is irreversible. I question, scientifical- 
ly, whether we can say, before it occurs, that that is going to 
happen. Just as I am not so sure that as long as a jury is still out 
on this whole area of what we can dump without creating serious 
health and other problems for us. 
Dr. Byrne. The response that I was making, sir, was from a hu- 
manistic point of view. We have a society which is concerned about 
this problem. If we were to disregard it then my answer would be 
entirely different. We could conceivably, I am sure, and I think ev- 
eryone in the room is probably sure, sufficiently degrade any por- 
tion of the environment such that it would never recover under 
certain circumstances. 
