198 
STATEMENT OF HON. EDWARD I. KOCH, MAYOR, NEW YORK 
CITY; ACCOMPANIED BY LINDA SEALE, COMMISSIONER, DE- 
PARTMENT OF PORTS AND TERMINALS, NEW YORK CITY; AND 
JOSEPH T. McGOUGH, COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF ENVI- 
RONMENTAL PROTECTION, NEW YORK CITY 
Mayor Kocu. Mr. Chairman, it is a special pleasure to appear 
before you as a witness. I served with almost everyone who is sit- 
ting at this table, and none of you have grown any older—or at 
least I remember you all the way you were. 
Mr. D’Amours. Whatever you want, Ed, you can have it. [Laugh- 
ter. | 
Mayor Kocu. I listened very avidly to the testimony of Captain 
Cousteau. Mr. Chairman, if I were putting together witnesses in 
support of the argument that we are going to make before you, I 
would have brought Captain Cousteau as our first witness to the 
table, because I do not disagree with anything he said. 
I want to make a brief reference to something he said and also, 
with your permission, to file my full statement, which I will not 
read. I have a more brief statement, which I will make even briefer 
so we can take as many questions as you would like to pose to us. 
The first reference I would like to make is to the captain’s testi- 
mony. He said we have to look at the whole system. He said what 
he is concerned about is the water, because we are made up of 98 
percent water, and we are originally water animals. He said we 
have to look at the snow, and we have to look at the lakes, and we 
have to look at the oceans, and the aquifers—the whole system; we 
agree. 
That is exactly what we are asking this committee to consider— 
the whole system. 
Captain Cousteau said that nobody is the villain; he is absolutely 
right. We all want to deal with the problem. He said we have to be 
prudent but realistic. Believe me, if you are a mayor, you know you 
have to be prudent and realistic. I want to say that when I was a 
Member of Congress, I had a very good environmental record. 
There were even years when I had 100 percent, and there were 
very few that had. It is easy to have a 100 percent environmental 
record as a Member of Congress. It is very tough as a mayor. The 
reason is a very obvious one, Mr. Chairman and members of the 
committee. There is a balancing of interests that a mayor has to 
employ to take a limited budget and to use it in a prudent but real- 
istic way. I think that we are doing that, and I hope to convince 
you of that. 
The last thing the captain said that I agree with, and I suspect 
every member here agrees with, is that the Federal Government 
should be collecting data on ocean impacts; and he is absolutely 
right. The data, he said, should be collected before the cities are 
asked to do something; he is right. 
I will briefly set forth the amendments which are being pro- 
posed, which we are concerned about, so that I can address them. 
First, they would totally eliminate the ocean disposal of all cur- 
rently dumped waste by prohibiting the disposal of any material 
containing known or suspected carcinogens, mutagens, and terato- 
gens in any quantity. This mandate does not take into account the 
