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Mr. PRITCHARD. A user fee type of thing? 
Mayor Kocu. Yes—on industry—to be used for research and de- 
velopment. That makes sense to me. They have an obligation to 
find a way to deal with their contaminants but not to impose it on 
us. 
Mr. D’Amours. Mr. Breaux? 
Mr. Breaux. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 
With regard to your comment that speaking with Mayor Koch 
was like eating peanuts—you can hardly stop—I would point out 
that apparently Playboy magazine agrees with that, too. I was 
reading the Playboy interview, and I find it a fascinating political 
document. 
Ed, we are glad to have you back again. 
Mayor Kocu. Thank you. 
Mr. BrEAux. One of the environmental witnesses to follow you 
refers to New York City as “at the forefront of efforts to frustrate 
congressional desires to phase out the harmful sludge dumping 
practices.” They continue to make a point by saying that the city’s 
dirtier sludge right now could be deemed to have a prudent and 
feasible alternative in the form of composting and application to 
four landfill sites in the area, and they identify them. They point 
out further in their testimony that contractors to the New York 
district have identified 295 so-called nonagricultural, nonwetland 
barren areas, collectively comprising about 54,000 acres within a 
100-mile radius of the Statue of Liberty, which might be suitable 
sites for the dumping of dredged materials. Perhaps your commis- 
sioners, or you, Mr. Mayor, could comment on that. 
Mayor Kocu. I will comment a little bit on that. 
When I was in the Congress, I remember the environmental 
groups, and they were all very decent people. They have a single 
issue. Members of Congress, who are national legislators, cannot be 
single-issue people. If you are not single-issue, then they will find 
words for you. Do you remember the expression, ‘The Dirty 
Dozen”? Do you remember that? That was supposed to terrify 
Members of Congress. If you did not want to be included as one of 
the Dirty Dozen, you had to knee jerk to every request. 
It is not possible to do that. You have to have a balanced point of 
view. Now, as it relates to being condemned by whoever it is that 
will follow, I expect it. Let me put it this way. If I were giving in to 
them, instead of taking a balanced point of view, which is to do 
what is correct, there would be somebody else on the other side of 
the issue calling me dirty names from the other point of view. I am 
trying to do what is not knee jerk, but what is responsible, what is 
reasonable for all of the people involved. 
Now, as it relates to other sites, it is our position that it makes 
no sense at all to dump on land carcinogens, mutagens, or terato- 
gens, because you are simply moving the wastes from one area to 
another without knowing the consequences. We know some of the 
consequences can be to destroy the water that is used in the sinks 
of people around the city and the State of New York and else- 
where. We do not think that makes any sense. 
Mr. Breaux. Mr. Mayor, can you and your staff tell us what 
ae the proposed amendmenis would have on the city of New 
ork? 
