283 
would do at the 106-mile site. But the major concern on your part 
is the cost involved, and we know that. 
Mayor Kocu. It is not just the cost; it is the cost effectiveness. 
Costs in the abstract have no meaning. What is important is what 
do you get for your money? We are saying that you will not get 
anything appreciable for the extra expenditures which would be in- 
curred by changing sites. Therefore, we do not think you should re- 
quire expenditure of those extra moneys and get nothing for it. 
Mr. HuGuHeEs. There is something else that we have not talked 
about. Right now, dumping in the bight has become a navigational 
problem. We have barges out there on a very active waterway, and 
we have the Coast Guard and other users complaining about the 
fact that barges are in that bight area; they cannot really disperse 
the material because they cannot stay very long in the bight. That 
in itself is creating problems. 
Mayor Kocu. Commissioner Linda Seale of the City Department 
of Ports and Terminals advises me that the Army Corps of Engi- 
neers says that this is not a factor. 
Do you want to comment on that, Linda? 
Ms. SEALE. The corps does not think there is a significant naviga- 
tional problem in the apex. They believe the site can be used for 
another 10 to 20 years without any navigational problems. 
Mr. Huaues. Well, that is not what the agencies tell us. My time 
is up. I thank you. I understand your problems, and we look for- 
ward to working with you to try to develop a proper balance. 
Mr. D’Amours. I would thank the gentleman from New Jersey. 
There is one more person who wants to question you, another 
gentleman from New York. 
Before we do that, Ms. Seale, does the Coast Guard say that also 
or just the Corps of Engineers? 
Ms. SEALE. I have not asked the Coast Guard. I would be glad to 
find that out for you, sir, and submit it later. 
Mr. D’Amours. That would be very important. I wish you would. 
Thank you. 
The gentleman from New York, Mr. Carney? 
Mr. Carney. Thank you very much. 
Thank you, Mr. Mayor, for being here today. As you probably re- 
alize, I represent what some people refer to as the “sterile sub- 
urbs” of Long Island. I do have somewhat of a problem, and I cer- 
tainly have empathy for you, too. 
There are some difficult decisions that will have to be made in 
the next couple of months. It is going to be tough for everyone. I do 
have some questions I would like to ask right now, not pertaining 
to sludge or dredge material, but to raw sewage which for some 
strange reason finds its way out the North River and on the 
beaches of Long Island on occasion. 
You said that you were going to programs now, one in the North 
River and one in Red Hook—— 
Mayor Kocu. North River being the Hudson River? 
Mr. Carney. Right—and one in Red Hook. When those projects 
are completed, will that finally terminate the dumping of raw 
sewage in the harbors? 
Mayor Kocu. Let me ask the commissioner. 
Mr. McGouau. From the New York side, yes. 
