298 
I do not know of any abandoned ocean sludge sites that have 
been studied. 
Mr. ForsyTHE. Sludge sites that have been abandoned for a suffi- 
cient length of time? 
Dr. Knauss. My staff has just informed me there is a Swedish 
estuary that was a sludge dump and stopped about 8 years ago. I 
do not know the details, but at least there is one area one could 
examine. 
Mr. ForsyTHE. It has been abandoned? 
Dr. Knauss. It has been abandoned. 
Mr. ForsyTHE. Hopefully, we might be able to find out what has 
happened there. 
Dr. Knauss. Perhaps. 
Mr. ForsyTHE. Do you have any specific recommendations as to 
how we might increase the incentive to reduce the toxicity of our 
waste materials? 
Dr. KNAuss. Other than what you and I just discussed earlier 
about a fee structure—and, again, I am no expert in this area—it 
seems to me that there is nothing like a monetary stick to get 
people to think about other ways to solve their problems. 
Mr. ForsyTHE. Or mandate that there be no more single sewage 
systems which carry all the runoff which apparently is causing the 
major problem in terms of what is going into the marine environ- 
ment. I understand that it is not necessarily the sewage sludge that 
is coming in but runoff going into the storm drains which is the 
biggest pollutant factor. 
Dr. Knauss. Yes; but when those double systems were put in 
back in the early 1900’s that was the most modern of technology. 
The reason why they were established at that time was because 
people realized that what was getting into our local estuaries was 
not only from sewers, but all the runoff from the roads, and so 
forth. Therefore, they said they would design a sewer system that 
will take care of both. 
I think it is also quite clear that a large amount of the material 
that gets into our estuaries from a city is not point source. It does 
not all come from the sewer system directly. For example, in our 
city of Providence more than 50 percent of the oil that gets into the 
Providence River estuary does not come via the sewer system, but 
comes from runoff from the roads. 
Therefore, one could argue if you had a well-designed system 
that would take care of both of these, you would solve that. That 
was the original intention back at the turn of the century when 
they first designed dual systems. The trouble is we no longer have 
the capacity to handle both the runoff and the sewage. We have 
more roads; we have more pavements; we have more storm drains; 
and we have more people. We just do not have the capacity. 
Mr. ForsyTHE. And far more automobiles creating the problems 
from our roads. 
Dr. Knauss. That is right. 
Mr. ForsyTHE. To your knowledge, has EPA given any thought to 
regional advisory committees or do they need new authority to do 
so? 
