300 
Mr. HuGues. Is that a fair statement? 
Dr. Knauss. That is a fair statement. 
Mr. HucGues. At what point scientifically do we reach saturation? 
What is it we can measure objectively that will occur before you 
would change your recommendation? What will we be looking for? 
What will have occurred scientifically that will change your con- 
clusion about the continuation of the New York Bight as a dump- 
site? 
Dr. Knauss. I would think several things would certainly influ- 
ence my opinion, Mr. Hughes. One would be when the amount of 
material being put into the New York Bight by sewage sludge is an 
appreciable percentage of the total amount of material that was 
coming into the New York Bight from all sources. At that point, 
we must look very hard at the New York Bight and decide what is 
the current effect on the local ecology, on the fisheries, and so 
forth; and then decide whether or not the sewage sludge itself is 
indeed causing sufficient damage to the environment that one 
should think about moving it. 
There are people who believe that sewage sludge in itself, even 
though it is only 5, 7, or 10 percent of the material—because it gets 
to the bottom quickly and stays there; ties up heavy metals in the 
sand grains; is less available for ingestion by animals; reduces 
oxygen demand; and so forth—that it may be the New York Bight 
will look a lot better if, relatively, the same amount of material 
was in the former sewage sludge than is in the raw sewage that 
now comes out. 
I am saying that, once we get to the point of cleaning up the rest 
of the sources of the New York Bight we should look very carefully 
at the effect of the disposing material in the New York Bight, and 
decide whether to go further offshore to put sewage sludge some- 
where else—maybe 65, 106, or disperse it—or whether to concen- 
trate it. I do not think we have the information now to predict 
what that will be. 
Mr. HuGuHes. You are almost saying that what we should do, is 
wait to see what the damage is and then we will know at that 
point we have gone too far. Is that what you are saying? 
Dr. Knauss. I hope I did not say that. I did not mean to say that. 
Mr. Hucues. It seems to me that is the conclusion with which 
you end up. In the first place, you are not suggesting that sewage 
sludge does not contribute to the overall distressed condition of the 
New York Bight? 
_ Dr. Knauss. I am not suggesting that at all. 
Mr. HuGues. You are not suggesting we know everything we 
should know about the long-term impact? 
Dr. Knauss. I am not suggesting that, either; no, sir. 
Mr. HuGues. You are not suggesting that perhaps our whole re- 
search effort might be misdirected along the way, and that is one 
of the reasons why we know so little about the long-term impact? 
Dr. Knauss. I am not saying our research effort has been misdir- 
ected, but I would agree with you that it seems to me perhaps we 
have looked at too few things. 
Mr. Hucues. Let me just read something to you. 
Research to date has shown minimal long-term detrimental effects from ocean 
waste disposal. This suggests that either the ocean is the best medium for the dis- 
