501 
This is a group of five agencies, I believe, who have funded a rela- 
tively independent program—relatively only in the sense that the 
money comes directly from the agencies. They are advised by inde- 
pendent scientific boards and so, in fact, scientifically they are to- 
tally independent. 
This group, over the years, with a very small budget has done 
what I consider to be the most definitive research on sludge dispos- 
al in the entire world, I think something on the order of a quarter 
or less of what NOAA has been spending, for example. That mech- 
anism has worked extremely well and it is one that we might use 
as an analog. 
But I think in this particular instance we are talking about 
something a little larger and we do need more Federal help and 
involvement. That, of course, would be an important factor in how 
you define this independent study commission or whatever one 
would call it. 
Mr. ForsyTHE. Thank you. 
Mr. BREAUx. Congressman Hughes. 
Mr. Hucues. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 
Welcome, Mr. White, Dr. Segar. It is good to see you Mr. White. 
A couple of years ago we worked together on a number of energy 
issues, as I recall. 
Mr. White. Unfortunately we were not as successful as we 
wanted to be. 
Mr. HuaGues. That is right. And I hope you won’t be as successful 
as you would like to be on this occasion. 
The Conference of Coastal Agencies, I just presume, just running 
down the overall list, are either people who are presently dumping 
in the ocean or would like to. Is that generally true? 
Mr. Wuite. Not quite. There are a few who simply don’t know 
but who believe that no doors ought to be slammed. That if the 
answer is yes, the ocean is an option, they would certainly want to 
consider it. 
Mr. Hucues. I don’t have a list but if we just said they are either 
dumping in the ocean, would like to or at least are keeping that 
option open. 
Mr. Wuite. Well, I think there is one that is very interested in 
what we are doing who is more interested in preserving their envi- 
ronment and do not want the city of Los Angeles to be coming into 
their area. This is El Segundo, Calif., who says basically, why 
should not that ocean be used because the Hyperion option is some- 
thing that is distasteful. 
Mr. Huaues. I understand. I don’t want to belabor the point. 
I am not aware of any New Jersey municipalities that are coast- 
al in nature that are members of the organization or do you have 
some New Jersey participants? Are there any New Jersey munici- 
palities that are coastal communities? 
Mr. Wuire. Passaic Valley who is a sewer agency is here, as well 
as Middlesex County. 
Mr. Hucues. They are not coastal, are they? 
Mr. White. The living authority [after consulting with Rocco 
Ricci] ae not as you suggest, Congressman Hughes. They are not 
coastal. 
