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to recycle anything in the ocean, whereas on land I think it is pos- 
sible. Would you agree to that? 
Mr. GoLpBERG. I share your goal of recycling, and I would agree 
that we need more efforts toward the recycling of domestic and in- 
dustrial wastes. There must be some recoverable substances of 
value in this material that we are throwing away. 
Mr. Evans. Dr. Goldberg, you are an expert in the assimilative 
capacity of the ocean, although that is very difficult to determine. 
It is kind of like a pot of water. All of a sudden, after it has been 
on the stove or on the fire for x number of minutes, it boils over, 
and very quickly it does that. How long did we dump various 
wastes into Lake Erie before detrimental effects on commercial fish 
became generally apparent? We eliminated some of the most im- 
portant commercial fish stock almost in their entirety in Lake 
Erie, and it seems to me that it happened veritably overnight. How 
long did we know? 
Mr. GOLDBERG. The discharges into the Lake Michigan area took 
place in substantial quantities, beginning at the turn of the cen- 
tury when we had extensive uses of coal burning and the intensive 
industrial development there. 
Mr. Evans. But it increased rather dramatically, I believe, after 
the Second World War? 
Mr. GoLpBERG. Probably from the 1940’s. Let me talk to that 
question a bit. I consider one of the most important marine pollu- 
tion problems in need of assessment is one that would arise out of 
your question—the overenrichment of coastal waters and the trend 
toward eutrophication, like the Chesapeake Bay or the San 
Franciso Bay, through the introduction of plant nutrients. This is 
not being looked at effectively by our governmental agencies. 
Mr. Evans. Well, I think it should be, but I just wanted to ask 
you that question on what happened in Lake Erie. Following up 
the chairman—my good friend, the gentleman from New Jersey—I 
think it is very difficult to determine, and because the potential 
dangers are there to unreasonably degrade the environment and to 
cause irreparable damage, we have to be very, very careful indeed 
before we set out to reverse what the gentleman from New Jersey, 
with some small assistance from the gentleman from Delaware, at- 
tempted to do in 1977, which was to place a deadline and give those 
municipalities time to go to alternative methods of disposal. 
And J. Sofaer’s decision, I think, was totally inconsistent with 
our intent, and we need to turn something around. You don’t find 
J. Sofaer and the administrative agencies, the EPA, telling Bill 
Hughes and Tom Evans that their intent was not what was on the 
record, and not only was it on the record, but it was placed on the 
record again in 1980. It was very clear what the intent was. If we 
need to change it, it should be the prerogative of the legislative 
branch of Government, and we would be reasonable in doing that. 
But I think we have to make absolutely certain that we don’t do 
something that is irreparably harmful and does damage to the en- 
vironment to the point where we jeopardize the SBE and the 
health and the lives of our citizens. 
Mr. GoLpBErG. I| think that is correct. 
Mr. Evans. Thank you, sir. 
Mr. Hucues. Thank you, Mr. Evans. 
