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Mr. D' Amours. We thank you, Mr. Schatzow, and thank you, Mr. 

 Ehler. 



To get right into it, I understand from your testimony, and I 

 would just Hke to make this absolutely clear, you both did say in 

 your testimony that stopping the dumping at the 12-mile bight 

 apex site would result in improvement of that site and a cleansing 

 of that site, did you not? I raise this specifically because I under- 

 stand that New York City is going to testify here later, given their 

 written submitted testimony, that there would be no significant im- 

 provement in the site even if dumping were halted at the 12-mile 

 site. 



Do I take it you both disagree with the city's testimony since you 

 both say in your testimony that if dumping were stopped at the 12- 

 mile site, there would be improvement in the condition of that 

 area? 



Mr. Schatzow, would you go first on that since I think you just 

 said it a few minutes ago. 



Mr. Schatzow. Yes. I think again it depends on the words. You 

 said cleansing of the site. 



Mr. D' Amours. Cleansing and improvement. 



Mr. Schatzow. We testified clearly there would be improvement. 

 We testified again, I think, it is difficult to isolate the sewage 

 sludge dumping at the 12-mile site and specifically measure in any 

 quantitative way the exact level of the improvement. I think what 

 we testified to and what NOAA has testified to is that there are a 

 variety of other efforts underway and the combination of these ef- 

 forts, that it would be in terms of control of a variety of different 

 point sources, control of nonpoint sources and control of ocean 

 dumping sewage sludge, better handle on dredge material, will give 

 us very significant improvement. 



Mr. D' Amours. So you believe there are actions that can be 

 taken with respect to all of these pollutant sources? The jurisdic- 

 tion of these subcommittees is limited to the dumping. 



Mr. Schatzow. I think our point was that not only could there 

 be action taken but most of the actions have been taken. They are 

 underway. 



Mr. D' Amours. But the question is we can't improve the area if 

 we don't stop dumping, can we? 



Mr. Schatzow. I don't think we said that. 



Mr. D'Amours. I am asking you now, asking you to testify now 

 as to that. 



Mr. Schatzow. My answer would be that we will have signifi- 

 cant improvements with the various point source and nonpoint 

 source controls. I am unable at this point to say that there is any 

 specific one of these sources that if not controlled, the precise im- 

 pacts of not controlling any of these particular sources. 



Mr. D'Amours. You are saying they should all be controlled? 



Mr. Schatzow. Yes, I am. 



Mr. D'Amours. Would you reply to that, Mr. Ehler. 



Mr. Ehler. My response would be similar. 



Mr. D'Amours. Would you label it a significant improvement? Or 

 would you call it an insignificant improvement? 



Mr. Ehler. Again, we testified that mass loading from ocean- 

 dumped materials for most pollutants is less than 10 percent. The 



