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Mr. Hughes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. D' Amours. The gentleman from Maryland, Mr. Dyson. 



Mr. Dyson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



I could tell, Mr. Mayor, it has been a 



Mr. D' Amours. You just missed your plane, Mr. Mayor. 



Mayor Koch. Oh, that is all right. I am having more fun here. 



Mr. Dyson. I was about to say you have been a mayor obviously 

 much longer than you have been a Congressman because I am sure 

 as a Congressman you probably would have avoided that last ques- 

 tion, especially since the chairman of this subcommittee was co- 

 sponsor of that repeal here in the House. 



Mayor Koch. No, actually I was a Congressman longer than I am 

 a mayor. I have been a mayor a little less than 6 and I was a Con- 

 gressman for 9 years. While I would give the chairman my proxy 

 on almost any matter, on occasion we can disagree. 



Mr. D' Amours. On rare occasions. 



Mr. Dyson. I think it is wonderful that you are here today. Al- 

 though we totally don't agree on this issue, but this whole question 

 of ocean dumping which those of us from the coastal States, I come 

 from Maryland, my colleague here is from Delaware and has the 

 beach up above me and we are all envious of the money that the 

 beaches in New Jersey now bring into that State's commerce — but 

 one of the concerns we have is this dumping. 



My question to you is if the bight is closed as EPA has attempted 

 to do and as has happened, attempts have been made in this com- 

 mittee for that, as I think you said in your opening testimony the 

 sludge has to go somewhere. That leaves about the 106-mile site 

 open. 



Of course we like that even less than the bight site. What is that 

 going to do for your costs? Obviously transporting it that much fur- 

 ther will be more. That cost on top of the cost of the administra- 

 tion's proposal to add a user fee, and I think that is also the pro- 

 posal of the gentleman from New Jersey. 



It seems almost a sure thing that that will eventually happen. 

 Where will it reach a point that it becomes prohibitive such that 

 you look for recycling or other alternatives? 



Mayor Koch. It is very hard with existing technology to do any- 

 thing other than to dump it. We will probably bear the cost of 

 what we estimate — although the chairman has different figures 

 and we will reconcile them I hope — but we estimate it will be $27 

 million out of our operating budget. 



Mr. Dyson. That would be additional? 



Mayor Koch. I think that is the total. 



Mr. McGouGH. It is additional. 



Mayor Koch. Over and above, yes. 



Mr. McGouGH. Other than what the chairman raised about the 

 new proposal for cheaper barging which we will have to look at. 



Mr. Dyson. Does that come out of that capital budget? 



Mayor Koch. No, our operating budget is different than our capi- 

 tal budget and our operating budget is tighter than our capital 

 budget. 



Mr. Dyson. That is an additional $27 million. 



Mayor Koch. Yes, just to indicate the problem that we have we 

 now have, come through three consecutive years of GAP balanced 



