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budget — I never heard of GAP [general accounting principles] — we 

 are going to be adopting our fourth consecutive GAP balanced 

 budget in the first week of June. But let me tell you it has been 

 very costly to us. It is very difficult for us. We used to have a little 

 over 31,000 uniformed cops, today we have 23,000. We have cut 

 back our services enormously. We are going to improve those serv- 

 ices in sanitation and cops and teachers and firefighters and police. 

 To take an additional $27 million now out of our operating budget 

 to do something which we honestly believe will not in a substantial 

 way upgrade the ocean to us makes no sense. 



Mr. Gift. I would like to respond to the same question in a little 

 different fashion. I think it is very relevant. You are very legiti- 

 mately concerned with beach water quality and beach conditions, 

 Maryland, Delaware, and New Jersey, all of you. You all have 

 great resorts depending on it. 



Based on extensive studies and what we know now at the 12-mile 

 site where we dispose of sludge 10 miles from land, EPA and 

 NOAA have concluded there is no effect on water quality, on the 

 beaches by that ocean management option. Your concerns are 

 even — you know, much further removed at 106. If we do not see ef- 

 fects on beach water quality at 12 miles, there is no conceivable 

 way that you will ever see it from 106 either. That is a more funda- 

 mental question from your standpoint than the cost of the different 

 operations. 



Mr. Dyson. I do not deny that at all. My concern is that ulti- 

 mately we do not want to see any ocean dumping. I am sure that 

 you feel the same way. Certainly one proposal, and my colleague 

 from Delaware has talked about that in earlier sessions of this 

 committee, but there are recycling alternatives. I realize that is ex- 

 pensive. I guess for my own edification I am interested in what 

 effect all of this is going to have on you if you have to choose one 

 site over the other or it is forced upon you, and the difference is 

 that you are going to pay, which the mayor did answer very well. 

 Thank you. 



Mr. McGouGH. If I might add one little bit. The city is doing 

 much to try to make more options available to it for disposal of the 

 sludge. Pretreatment programs, that will be in place July 1 this 

 year. We are going beyond Federal regulations on housekeeping for 

 dischargers over 10,000 gallons threshold that is in the Federal 

 law. We are also looking at nonindustrial sources of the contami- 

 nants of concern in the city. We will spend money on that. The pre- 

 treatment program will cost the city of New York $1 million a 

 year. 



Relevant to your concern is storm water overflow control. We 

 have 450 regulators that open every appreciable rainstorm and 

 combined discharges of both sanitary and storm water run into the 

 surrounding waters, and that is where you get a lot of beach con- 

 tamination. We are completing the North River and Red Hook 

 plants, which will take all remaining raw discharges in the city by 

 1987. EPA cited this morning the flow balance method for CSO 

 control. We have submitted a work plan, that is the next genera- 

 tion for control. That will have the most impact. 



I would say when you balance these options here, consider what 

 $25 million will do in storm water control as opposed to moving the 



