242 



Mr. Carper. My time expired. I just want to say thank you for 

 joining us. I would appreciate your following through on that offer 

 to provide some analysis between the city of Philadelphia's sludge 

 and that of New York City. Thank you. 



[See table 4 of city's responses on p. 293.] 



Mr. D'Amours. I thank the gentleman from Delaware. 



Mr. Mayor, before you go, and others may have questions, but in- 

 sofar as this question revolves around the costs to the city of New 

 York, you were on Nightline last night from the Brooklyn Bridge 

 and you mentioned that the city's finances were in very good 

 shape. 



Mayor Koch. Compared to what, Mr. Chairman? [Laughter.] 



Mr. D'Amours. I thought you were speaking absolutely. I get the 

 impression you were just comparing. But let me continue now, and 

 you can get me later as you always do. The population of the city 

 of New York is what, today? 



Mayor Koch. Technically 7 million, and the Census Bureau did 

 not count 750,000 others. [Laughter.] 



Mr. D'Amours. They were hanging from the windowsills at the 

 time? 



Based on that 7 million population, the difference in cost be- 

 tween 106-mile dumping and 12-mile dumping on a per capita basis 

 is less than 1 cent per day. 



That is not a lot to pay for a city that has a sound financial base, 

 and for an area where the pollution is grave, at least in the opinion 

 of many, many people. This question is not meant with any hostil- 

 ity, but are we really talking about that much money for the city 

 of New York? My calculations are based on your figures, which as 

 you know we have some questions about. 



Mayor Koch. I understand that. But you can use that argument 

 about our libraries. We reduced our library time. If you took it in 

 terms of how much per day, it probably comes out to less than a 

 penny a day to keep them open 24 hours a day. But we in fact re- 

 duced their availability. It was very painful to us. 



So what people are not aware of as relates to the city of New 

 York is the following: In our three largest boroughs, in Brooklyn, 

 in the Bronx, and in Manhattan in terms of population, the aver- 

 age number of those below the poverty line percentagewise is 25 

 percent. Twenty-five percent of our population in Brooklyn rough- 

 ly, but in those three, it is 25 percent below the poverty line. We 

 are not talking about an affluent city. What I was conveying last 

 night and convey here is if you compare the city of New York now 

 with 1975 when we were on the edge of bankruptcy we are much, 

 much stronger. We will never be on the edge of bankruptcy again, 

 but is $27 million important to the city of New York and should it 

 be spent in a prioritized way and not be spent if we think — and we 

 hopefully convince you — that you won't be getting $27 million in 

 return from that expenditure. I just urge that we not be compelled 

 to spend it there but elsewhere, where it will do more good. 



Mr. D'Amours. Thank you very much for your answer. 



Are there any other questions? 



Mr. Forsythe. Just one, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. D'Amours. Mr. Forsythe. 



