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whatever from the State of Delaware now. Therefore, our concern 

 is to stop all ocean dumping if we can. We feel 



Mr. Hughes. Don't you have ocean outfalls in Delaware? 



Mr. Castle. We have one outfall, I think. 



Mr. EiCHLER. We have one ocean outfall off the ocean, but that is 

 after a tertiary treatment. 



Mr. Hughes. Tertiary treatment? 



Mr. EiCHLER. That is right. 



Mr. Castle. Our concern is if we move from 12 to 106 or what- 

 ever and we continue to do this. New York will continue to put off 

 the ultimate decision and perhaps even New Jersey, to do some- 

 thing alternatively that would be a complete prevention of the 

 problem of dumping in the ocean. If it got to the point where you 

 said it has to be 12 or 106 on a permanent basis, then perhaps the 

 answer would change somewhat, but if you allow a change and con- 

 tinue to encourage the ocean dumping by allowing change from 

 one site to another, it seems to not set up any kind of end to the 

 ocean dumping which we so vehemently oppose. 



It is for that basic reason that we have the opposition. I am not 

 pretending to be an environmental expert in this case, but in talk- 

 ing to Mr. Eichler and other people in Delaware and reviewing 

 what Congressman Carper has done, we think at least the jury is 

 out on the difference between the 12-mile and 106-mile site. 



You obviously may feel differently. That puts us all between a 

 rock and a hard place, with all political decisions some are 100 per- 

 cent to nothing, and some are 60-40 and this is a close call. As far 

 as I am concerned, my mind could be turned with additional evi- 

 dence concerning that. I well understand ever3d;hing you say here 

 today. 



Mr. Hughes. First of all, I appreciate the cooperation that Tom 

 Carper has afforded us. He has demonstrated to me to be a good 

 member of this committee in working out the compromises that he 

 did. I don't have to tell you that even when we work together as 

 coastal areas concerned about harmful ocean dumping, we have 

 had mixed results at best. So a divided house is going to insure 

 that we have perpetual dumping, harmful ocean dumping. 



It is important to develop a consensus. That is why I alluded to 

 what New Jersey is doing. I would invite you. Governor, to look at 

 the comprehensive procedure taken by Delaware. I think the multi- 

 media approach, a look at all the types of dumping, to try to devel- 

 op a fee schedule that would recycle some money into a fund to be 

 used to finance land-based alternatives, if that be the most feasible 

 approach, to help us defray the cost of monitoring, we are cutting 

 back in monitoring, of course; it was zero funded as some research 

 activities at the time dumping will increase. 



But we need a comprehensive approach as a way to arrive at 

 some consensus. We all want to get there, I think. 



Mr. Castle. I am very impressed by New Jersey's testimony. 

 This is an answer better given by Congressman Carper than me in 

 this circumstance, but I would certainly think that a review of that 

 in cooperation with New Jersey could indeed perhaps bring us a 

 consensus in this area. 



Mr. Hughes. Thank you. 



